Infantry Blobs

This is true, but at some point you're going to be overwhelmed. It's no different than how 1 AT gun isn't going to hold off two tanks on its own.

Arrrrrgg, your time zone is not quite good for me.
Every time I can play, you are like in the midnight or the very morning.

Properly used MGs save the Maxim are useful against blobs at all stages of the game, since unlike CoH1 this game doesn't have silly shit like Fire Up! or heroic charge that breaks suppression. In the early game, it suppresses infantry faster and you mop up with other troops (sturmpios, rifles, grens). In the late game, it suppresses slower, but you have much more potent blob counters on hand with various tanks, artillery, and elite infantry.

An MG is not supposed to be sat there to be forgotten; you need to position it well, in cover if it all possible, and micro it to respond to the flow of battle, not to mention support it properly. The battlefield becomes increasingly deadlier for MGs, sure, but that's why you use other units as meatshields.

No one wants MG teams to be that powerful. What we do want is MG's to do their ONE JOB effectively.

Right now you can put an MG into green cover and 5 squads of obers / riflemen with BAR's can simply walk into its cone of fire and kill it without even getting suppressed before it dies.

What is the point of suppression if it can be broken by just attack moving your units forward without even trying to flank / use tactics?

No one wants MG teams to be that powerful. What we do want is MG's to do their ONE JOB effectively.

Right now you can put an MG into green cover and 5 squads of obers / riflemen with BAR's can simply walk into its cone of fire and kill it without even getting suppressed before it dies.

What is the point of suppression if it can be broken by just attack moving your units forward without even trying to flank / use tactics?

Why is your MG without support? Do you expect 240 MP to stop (if 5 Obers) 2000 MP of infantry by itself? I sure as hell don't.

Also, yes it will suppress even Obers rushing at it. No way it won't. It will die shortly if alone, but it will. Then again that's like asking a lone AT gun to do anything but fire 1 shot at an incoming rush of 5 Panzer 4s. If your MGs don't help you deal with blobs, you are using them wrong.

And yes, if the enemy has overwhelming numbers and firepower, not having to use tactics against a lone unit is normal in any RTS game. What, do you expect that the game will make his units explode if he bunches too many of them together? There are numerous blob counters in this game. It's up to you to use them. One T-34 will counter any number of Obers. 1 microed Ostwind will counter any number of rifles, for a start. If they are suppressed, it becomes even easier.

Why is your MG without support? Do you expect 240 MP to stop (if 5 Obers) 2000 MP of infantry by itself? I sure as hell don't.

Also, yes it will suppress even Obers rushing at it. No way it won't. It will die shortly if alone, but it will. Then again that's like asking a lone AT gun to do anything but fire 1 shot at an incoming rush of 5 Panzer 4s. If your MGs don't help you deal with blobs, you are using them wrong.

And yes, if the enemy has overwhelming numbers and firepower, not having to use tactics against a lone unit is normal in any RTS game. What, do you expect that the game will make his units explode if he bunches too many of them together? There are numerous blob counters in this game. It's up to you to use them. One T-34 will counter any number of Obers. 1 microed Ostwind will counter any number of rifles, for a start. If they are suppressed, it becomes even easier.

That is patently false. No matter how well you micro an ostwind (might as well quit the game if you have to use the flaktrack for this) 5 squads of rifles will disintegrate it in seconds with their bazookas.

You are contradicting yourself.

<<Do you expect 240 MP to stop (if 5 Obers) 2000 MP of infantry by itself? I sure as hell don't.>>

<<1 microed Ostwind will counter any number of rifles.>>

Please stop using the (X > Y) then (manpower X beat manpower Y) logic, because it is stupid.

considering ostwind is armour and rifles are infantry, they are two separate classes. naturally ostwind is immune to rifle fire, only bazookas which makes up for 95% of the firepower in the blob.

but an mg is pretty much infantry too, it is not immune to rifle fire then can be exposed 95% of effective fire in a rifle blob, assuming he only has 1-2 bazookas.

so he is not exactly wrong either.

mg has range but no vision, but people who use them are not setting them up well. infantry must screen mg to draw fire and provide vision, not stand behind the mg and hoping suppression kicks in fast enough, before they send in infantry. it should be the other way around.

Uh, because an Ostwind is far more expensive than a MG since it costs, you know, fuel and is a dedicated AI vehicle instead of a support weapon?

And yes the logic is valid, if you expect an early game unit to single-handedly counter several late-game unit that cost much more in price.

And if the rifleblob has lots of bazookas, it's just easy as hell to smash with your own infantry or heavy tanks. Zooks are pretty bad against anything with real armor and rifles have no special mobility to run down tanks, as well as a shitty AT nade.

I am sorry, but there is no excuse. Blobs are counterable with what's in the game. It's not enjoyable to play against, but it's perfectly beatable by all factions unless you play wrong.

What about 2 units with high dps rushing through the front of an MG?

With how MG are working, it´s probable that you will kill the unit before high values of supress or pin happens and then it´s just lol kill the gunner, wipe MG. 0 tactics, just rush high dps unit focus fire.

You mean like if 2 (say) Shocks attacked a MG from different angles and beat it? Because that's a perfectly valid counter. MGs are supposed to suppress one squad or several very blobbed one, not to act as a forcefield against any and all infantry in their arc. They do that job well, I find.

I don't know, after playing COH1, the blobs in CoH2 just don't scare me that much. After the zombie gren hordes, rangers that can ignore suppression, PE STG44 blobs that ran over anything, and the dreaded brit blobs, there's nothing in the second game that can really unnerve you. You have counter for blobs, they exist and fuck them up real good, and all factions have them. MGs are just there to allow you to line up the counters more easily, late game.

Arrrrrgg, your time zone is not quite good for me.
Every time I can play, you are like in the midnight or the very morning.

Yeah we seem to have inverted schedules.

I still don't understand why the MG42 can't have the suppression values it had in vCOH. It's insane, go back and play it, and no one ever complained about that. MG spam was not viable, it wasn't really viable in November either, because there were plenty of counters available, far more than in vCOH. Both factions have loads of them now too. The problem is support weapons can cap. That is the only reason MG spam was viable. So if we want MG suppression back, we need to disallow capping by support weapons. I know that's kind of crazy, but think about how much less viable Maxim spam, the most complained about Soviet strat, would be?

270*4 manpower spread out even all in the arc of fire (as can happen on Minsk) should still beat the MG. You are rewarded for your spacing and micro. That's fair. Blobs packed in a small area running straight up to the MG and killing it purely because of their DPS should not be viable - you're rewarding bad micro. I'm not sure how they should fix this, but honestly what they did in VCOH was better - the stuff being directly fired at got pinned really fast whereas units in the sides of the arc would not be instantly suppressed, but suppression would still kick in eventually. I just feel like the AOE is not big enough.

My big issue is MG retreats vs US - even if you pack up and leave before you take a lot of damage, the higher rifle DPS kills the MG far too often on retreat, whereas it can escape a conscript blob just fine. So that's one of those balance issues I despair at them being able to fix - buff retreat bonuses too much and it's unfair to Soviet, but right now it's one of those things making the US/Wehr matchup very difficult.

Properly used MGs save the Maxim are useful against blobs at all stages of the game, since unlike CoH1 this game doesn't have silly shit like Fire Up! or heroic charge that breaks suppression. In the early game, it suppresses infantry faster and you mop up with other troops (sturmpios, rifles, grens). In the late game, it suppresses slower, but you have much more potent blob counters on hand with various tanks, artillery, and elite infantry.

An MG is not supposed to be sat there to be forgotten; you need to position it well, in cover if it all possible, and micro it to respond to the flow of battle, not to mention support it properly. The battlefield becomes increasingly deadlier for MGs, sure, but that's why you use other units as meatshields.

No instead it has oorah and smoke,plus far lethal small arms.

No instead it has oorah and smoke,plus far lethal small arms.

Ooorah doesn't break suppression, grants no suppression resistance, and comes on two fairly fragile units. A far cry from Fire Up!, which came on very tough elite infantry and allowed them to completely disregard suppression for 10 seconds.

Smoke is also a viable tactic that requires skill and planning to use. It's a natural counter to MGs, as it should be.

@Sluzbenik: The only thing that would be possible is giving a suppression modifier against very blobbed infantry. But even then, if the enemy is blobbed that way, he's just asking to have his shit decimated by heavy tanks, explosives and artillery. Against any semi-good player in this game, blobbing is not a very viable tactic. Each faction has at least 4 solid blob counters, the Soviets more than anyone to compensate for their MG sucking against blobs.

I'm still at a loss as to why the maxim is so much better than the mg42 and yet they are both priced the same. Atleast I think they're priced the same.

I still don't understand why the MG42 can't have the suppression values it had in vCOH. It's insane, go back and play it, and no one ever complained about that. MG spam was not viable, it wasn't really viable in November either, because there were plenty of counters available, far more than in vCOH. Both factions have loads of them now too. The problem is support weapons can cap. That is the only reason MG spam was viable. So if we want MG suppression back, we need to disallow capping by support weapons. I know that's kind of crazy, but think about how much less viable Maxim spam, the most complained about Soviet strat, would be?

270*4 manpower spread out even all in the arc of fire (as can happen on Minsk) should still beat the MG. You are rewarded for your spacing and micro. That's fair. Blobs packed in a small area running straight up to the MG and killing it purely because of their DPS should not be viable - you're rewarding bad micro. I'm not sure how they should fix this, but honestly what they did in VCOH was better - the stuff being directly fired at got pinned really fast whereas units in the sides of the arc would not be instantly suppressed, but suppression would still kick in eventually. I just feel like the AOE is not big enough.

My big issue is MG retreats vs US - even if you pack up and leave before you take a lot of damage, the higher rifle DPS kills the MG far too often on retreat, whereas it can escape a conscript blob just fine. So that's one of those balance issues I despair at them being able to fix - buff retreat bonuses too much and it's unfair to Soviet, but right now it's one of those things making the US/Wehr matchup very difficult.

Great point. The MG was great in vCOH. Why change it?

Great point. The MG was great in vCOH. Why change it?

Because it wasn't great and infantry moves differently in this game. Infantry moved a bit faster back in vCOH.

Great point. The MG was great in vCOH. Why change it?

80% of infantry could also break and ignore suppression at will.

Things weren't as great in CoH1 as people make them seem.

Coh1 a great. But people seem to forget all the abusive strategys

Im commenting one aspect of vCOH. I see no reason to defend other aspects of the game I didnt like.

Why is it that you cant mention areas where vCOH was great, without someone bringing in some version of rose tinted glasses?

Im commenting one aspect of vCOH. I see no reason to defend other aspects of the game I didnt like.

Why is it that you cant mention areas where vCOH was great, without someone bringing in some version of rose tinted glasses?

You're commenting one aspect, ignoring quite a few others directly connected to it, which made that one aspect you've chosen to comment how it was in the first place. Suppression seemed better in CoH1, but there was also immense amount of things that hardcountered suppression with 1 skill less click.