Infantry Blobs

I fail to recognize why my supposedly mathematically superior BAR blobs would lose to volks shreks blobs. The insinuations regarding my lack of skill when it comes to blobbing aside, I'm merely reporting what I've been experiencing for the past week. I invite anyone to visually prove me wrong, since I find it hard to believe that the idea of making sure my BAR troops get as close to the enemy as possible is the sign of a bad player.

Burden of proof lies on the claimant. Anyone who can play the game to a decent standard understands that Riflemen of equal costed blobbyness have much more damaging anti infantry firepower at all ranges than a volks squad does- even before BAR upgrades.

As a random guess, though, based on your post- you do know what cover is, right? And that if you try close in on a blob in cover over open ground, it'll be very painful?

You do also know units have an accuracy penalty if they're moving, too, right?

And also you're not meant to stand on grenades?

Cover? Since when to blobs use cover? Blobs use sheer numbers and DPS to achieve their goal, they don't need cover nor can they fit in it.

Burden of proof lies on the claimant.

Oh don't worry, it's bound to happen again soon. Then I'd gladly be happy to indulge you.

I'll also ignore the sarcasm. You're acting hugely unpleasant for no reason. But I guess in all fairness, you're just living up to your English nature - being an unlikable cunt, through and through.

Oh don't worry, it's bound to happen again soon. Then I'd gladly be happy to indulge you.

I'll also ignore the sarcasm. You're acting hugely unpleasant for no reason. But I guess in all fairness, you're just living up to your English nature - being an unlikable cunt, through and through.

You forgot the xenophobia, that too. As I sit behind my keyboard swigging tea and eating chips (the last two are actually true, to boot). A living breathing stereotype.

Seriously, though, BAR rifles vastly outperform Volksgrens for Anti-Infantry firepower. You're leaving out details or you're handling something poorly, somehow or other. I can't tell you what it is without a replay, but its something.

Seriously, though, BAR rifles vastly outperform Volksgrens for Anti-Infantry firepower. You're leaving out details or you're handling something poorly, somehow or other. I can't tell you what it is without a replay, but its something.

Even with bazooka they outperform Volks

Volks have lower DPS on all range compared to Rifles.

Volk's DPS: n 3.434 m 1.703 f 1.22
Rifle's DPS n 5.691 m 2.689 f 1.736 Thanks for the link Coh2player

Seriously, though, BAR rifles vastly outperform Volksgrens for Anti-Infantry firepower. You're leaving out details or you're handling something poorly, somehow or other. I can't tell you what it is without a replay, but its something.

Personal experiences aside, it still doesn't address blobs. In another game, a friend and I had complete control of the map, only for the opposing squad to literally bunch 10+ units together and circle around the entire map like an unstoppable ball of death. This is even though I had an mg, at gun, utility car and bar squad in that specific location they pushed through.

Like our forces were nothing, made up of mg's and Shermans and mortars, etc. They rolled all the other points then pushed out King Tigers. I genuinely couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing.

Use this site for exact statistics:

http://www.coh2-stats.com/squads

I think glacier is focusing on the wrong thing. I've seen these volks blobs he talks about a lot. The thing is that they are usually clumped together with 2-4 Obers or falls which are the ones doing the damage. The volks are usually only there so you can't attack the blob with armor.

That is because all of your examples are armour which functions on a fundamentally different level. Unlike an ISU, no infantry needs to worry about pathing or the lack of a turret, do they? Nor sinking on ice, for that matter.

Yes, armor functions differently, that's my point - it's a much more tactical and interesting part of the game than the infantry part, where "spend MOAR = win MOAR" holds more true than it does for armor. Using better tactics to win battles without needing greater spending is what makes this game interesting. Otherwise it is inferior to other RTS games like Starcraft which do resource management better.

Bad micro does not in and of itself have any penalties at all. Just because your opponent is doing derpy things does not mean the game is going to reach out and slap him for it. That's your responsibility.

Not true for the other examples I mentioned - if an Elefant backs up on to an AT gun, you don't even need to be playing for it to die. Walking so many people into an HMG is a mistake of equal magnitude yet isn't punished ...

If a blob kills a single unsupported MG that's a worse decision on your part than the blobbing was.

In the current implementation, yes, but this is circular logic. What I'm suggesting is that walking 30 dudes straight into a HMG is a far worse blunder than leaving an HMG by itself. I'm fine with the blob killing or retreating the HMG, but the blob should at least lose a number of models for doing something stupid.

If you want blobs to be punished, set up a few MG's and something to explode and actually do it yourself, jesus.

Whereas needing to temporarily split up the blob and flank is "too much work." LOL.

Also:

Glacier, there's no way that what you're talking about is happening. There must be Obersoldaten or something hidden in that blob, as others have already mentioned. If you post a replay we could pick it apart and figure out what is going on.

Not true for the other examples I mentioned - if an Elefant backs up on to an AT gun, you don't even need to be playing for it to die. Walking so many people into an HMG is a mistake of equal magnitude yet isn't punished ...

It's not nearly the same. An ISU with its ass backwards is incapable of fighting back and the PaK can kill it. Ergo, it's a terrible mistake, and will cost you all dem units.

In the current implementation, yes, but this is circular logic. What I'm suggesting is that walking 30 dudes straight into a HMG is a far worse blunder than leaving an HMG by itself. I'm fine with the blob killing or retreating the HMG, but the blob should at least lose a number of models for doing something stupid.

Clearly, it's not, because your MG dies.

It's a single 240MP unit, not superman.

It's fighting units which can fire back, and can hurt it, and it's got a squishy 4 man crew.

Suppression is good. Suppression is not god.


Suppression is not kills. MG42 is a control tool, not a damage tool. Maxim is middle ground, and even it will hardly rack up kills.

Whereas needing to temporarily split up the blob and flank is "too much work." LOL.

Hardly. Splitting the blob is is decent play. If your opponent blobs, and you play well, the blob will melt and you'll win because better play.

Simple relationship.

If you try fight a blob one unit at a time you played even more horribly then the blobber and are punished for it.

It's not nearly the same. An ISU with its ass backwards is incapable of fighting back and the PaK can kill it. Ergo, it's a terrible mistake, and will cost you all dem units.

What I'm saying is that running many infantry straight into an HMG should also be a terrible mistake.

Hardly. Splitting the blob is is decent play. If your opponent blobs, and you play well, the blob will melt and you'll win because better play.

Simple relationship.

If you try fight a blob one unit at a time you played even more horribly then the blobber and are punished for it.

Just earlier you said that it's fine for the blob to walk over the MG with minimal losses - this is the point of contention. If the blobbing is splitting, attacking from the side, or from around a corner... that's different.

No one is saying that a lone MG is good play, or that it should work well. It's a point about the mechanics of the game which have moved in a distinctly blobby direction since WF came out.

Personally, I think that if you have one or two squads with an HMG, and a fucknormous blob walks directly into the HMG, the blob should either retreat or get killed ... and as of right now, if you have the right balance of PFusiliers in that blob, the blob might be just fine.

I feel like Brachiaraidos is a blobber defending his practice, and lists "a well micored force" and "better play" as counters because those occasionally break his blobs.

I feel like Brachiaraidos is a blobber defending his practice, and lists "a well micored force" and "better play" as counters because those occasionally break his blobs.

If you think I got to rank 8 at soviet 2v2 by blobbing, feel free to keep thinking that.

Isnt that the approach that keeps blobbing viable? I mean, if we follow you logic the only viable counter to blibbing would be a counterblob.

Except lets be realistic here. People that play well can win at an eco disadvantage. Positioning and micro will still come out top.

The disparity, however, been well over 1000mp vs a static, 240mp unit should not be enough to cause this level of alarm.

MGs are not meant to be parked out in the open and left alone to handle a million infantry, they're a support unit and you use them to supplement your main force's capabilities. One or two squads with an MG should allow anyone to manhandle a blob. Using OKW as an example, a Sturmpio and Volk should be able to destroy a USF blob if they have an MG34 with them(Assuming here there are no M1919s) due to Sturmpio's huge DPS and Volk grenades and so on.

The game is about how you use your units. And if you're using your single MG against a blob that costs 5x more than it does, you're using your units badly.

If you think I got to rank 8 at soviet 2v2 by blobbing, feel free to keep thinking that.

But soviets don't really have much blob potential, it's more of a US/OKW thing ... not unbeatable or even overpowered, just more viable than it should be.

Again, no is suggesting that a lone HMG should defeat a blob, just that it should impede one more than it does. As it is, a well composed blob can walk over an HMG supported by a few squads without flanking, which is silly.

Using OKW as an example, a Sturmpio and Volk should be able to destroy a USF blob if they have an MG34 with them(Assuming here there are no M1919s) due to Sturmpio's huge DPS and Volk grenades and so on.

The game is about how you use your units. And if you're using your single MG against a blob that costs 5x more than it does, you're using your units badly.

And just how often do you actually see mg 34 actually 'destroy' a usa blob,lol.Don't make me laugh...these are just desperate statements.Mg 34 will be lucky if it can suppress a couple of riflemen units before it gets focus fired and killed.

The fact is this -the heavy machine gun right now in general can't kill.So if one would invest the price of a standard inf unit that won't kill..then the one thing it can do..suppression must be reliable to make it pay for itself.Its not.At current situation regarding suppression hmg needs a damage and accuracy buff when faced with 3 or more units within its arc.This will prevent any early game mg spam,yet counter lategame blobbing by inflicting heavy losses .
Right now most players just choose another standard unit over the mg as its more bang for buck.At best maybe 1 mg (excluding maxims).
Combined with the fact how horrible they are in buildings..well... no,in most cases.Hence spam.

Except lets be realistic here. People that play well can win at an eco disadvantage. Positioning and micro will still come out top.

The disparity, however, been well over 1000mp vs a static, 240mp unit should not be enough to cause this level of alarm.

MGs are not meant to be parked out in the open and left alone to handle a million infantry, they're a support unit and you use them to supplement your main force's capabilities. One or two squads with an MG should allow anyone to manhandle a blob. Using OKW as an example, a Sturmpio and Volk should be able to destroy a USF blob if they have an MG34 with them(Assuming here there are no M1919s) due to Sturmpio's huge DPS and Volk grenades and so on.

The game is about how you use your units. And if you're using your single MG against a blob that costs 5x more than it does, you're using your units badly.

Noone is saying otherwise. Point is that the X amount MP should beat Y amount is a bad one, as how you use your units and counters should be more important.

Noone is saying otherwise. Point is that the X amount MP should beat Y amount is a bad one, as how you use your units and counters should be more important.

This is true, but at some point you're going to be overwhelmed. It's no different than how 1 AT gun isn't going to hold off two tanks on its own.

And just how often do you actually see mg 34 actually 'destroy' a usa blob,lol.Don't make me laugh...these are just desperate statements.Mg 34 will be lucky if it can suppress a couple of riflemen units before it gets focus fired and killed.

...

he said "a Sturmpio and Volk should be able to destroy a USF blob if they have an MG34 with them"

Properly used MGs save the Maxim are useful against blobs at all stages of the game, since unlike CoH1 this game doesn't have silly shit like Fire Up! or heroic charge that breaks suppression. In the early game, it suppresses infantry faster and you mop up with other troops (sturmpios, rifles, grens). In the late game, it suppresses slower, but you have much more potent blob counters on hand with various tanks, artillery, and elite infantry.

An MG is not supposed to be sat there to be forgotten; you need to position it well, in cover if it all possible, and micro it to respond to the flow of battle, not to mention support it properly. The battlefield becomes increasingly deadlier for MGs, sure, but that's why you use other units as meatshields.