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Infantry Blobs

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7 Jul 2014, 17:39 PM
#21
avatar of Icestrike

Posts: 71

How about a higher aim time for units shootin' through other units of their own team? This change would decrease the DPS and the efficiency of a blob. You won't see it that often --> more CoH2-like rounds.
8 Jul 2014, 09:19 AM
#22
avatar of wehrwolfzug

Posts: 126



Without Zeal upgrade they actually had penalty.

And wehr pios had a penalty as well for blobbing.


Exactly... This is not a new problem for relic to solve. COH1 suffered immensely from paratrooper blobbing, ranger spam, Brit blobbing and on and on. Eventually after 15 or so brutal and horrible game breaking patches one patch made it through with penalties to units blobbed together.

So I imagine they will bring the fix eventually in the form of a penalty for grouped units again as this is not a new issue. But then again.... OKW was released with heavy crush and allowing unit pushing with base trucks, which was a huge issue with the brits in coh1. It had taken years and numerous patches before it was fixed. so I may not have the same faith as others that this will be fixed soon.

Who the hell is on this dev team and why are they doing the same mistakes over and over again with COH2 ???? ugh.....
Hux
8 Jul 2014, 10:06 AM
#23
avatar of Hux
Patrion 14

Posts: 505

If you can't counter an infantry blob, you need to learn how to use artillery and suppression tools properly.

There's nothing to fix other than your shitty play.



*QFT
8 Jul 2014, 11:06 AM
#24
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Just give blobbed units 1.25 received accuracy modifier.
9 Jul 2014, 19:41 PM
#25
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

I feel like people often confuse 'blobbing' with making lots of infantry and intelligently using cover, buildings, and multiple angles of attack. If your opponent makes five rifle squads but uses them all perfectly, he's not blobbing, he's just really good.
9 Jul 2014, 19:54 PM
#26
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

On the contrary, you're getting blobbing mixed up with spamming. Spamming is when you make a lot of the same unit regardless of how you use it. Blobbing is when you put a bunch of units into one big mob and move them all around at once with no attention to cover or tactics. Often times they overlap, such as a blob made up of 5 Riflesquads, but not always.

Spam takes more effort to use, because you still need cover and tactics. Spam is often a side-effect of other units being less effective even with combined arms, than simply building one type. It happens because the weakness of building one unit type is still stronger than the weakness of diverting resources to another type.

Blobbing takes little effort or risk for high payout and is popular among low - mid tier players, even moreso with Americans since they can create the most versatile blobs. The biggest blobs (what I call "critical mass") can even steamroll things meant to counter them, like Machine Guns and Tanks.
9 Jul 2014, 19:57 PM
#27
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

On the contrary, you're getting blobbing mixed up with spamming. Spamming is when you make a lot of the same unit regardless of how you use it. Blobbing is when you put a bunch of units into one big mob and move them all around at once with no attention to cover or tactics. Often times they overlap, such as a blob made up of 5 Riflesquads, but not always.

Spam takes more effort to use, because you still need cover and tactics. Spam is often a side-effect of other units being less effective even with combined arms, than simply building one type. It happens because the weakness of building one unit type is still stronger than the weakness of diverting resources to another type.

Blobbing takes little effort or risk for high payout and is popular among low - mid tier players, even moreso with Americans since they can create the most versatile blobs. The biggest blobs (what I call "critical mass") can even steamroll things meant to counter them, like Machine Guns and Tanks.


This.

I have started calling this Company of Blobs its gotten so bad. Its quite boring when there is just blob after blob game after game and you use the same weak blob counters to deal with them just dragging out the game with dull game play.
9 Jul 2014, 20:03 PM
#28
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Blobbing is actively being encouraged by Relic. In order to reduce the amounts of blobs there needs to be checks in place. Units such as stuka half tracks, god-cannon tiger; abilities such as off map artillery; and to a lesser extent suppression are examples of checks. Over the past patches these checks are becoming less effective for blob control. KV8, German rocket half track, Katyusha have been adjusted and no longer effectively counter the blobs.

So whats a player left to do?

You get creative. You mass your own units and you throw them against the opponents blob. 2 Uber squads? I raise you my 3 shock troop squads. It's an arm race for the ultimate blob

May the largest blob win.

There is the catch though.

If Relic reverts a lot of the adjustments there will be a whole lot of whines about units getting one shotted. ISU, love it and hate it, was an effective blob counter. Obviously, that was over powered and corrected.
9 Jul 2014, 20:08 PM
#29
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2014, 20:03 PMNapalm
Blobbing is actively being encouraged by Relic. In order to reduce the amounts of blobs there needs to be checks in place. Units such as stuka half tracks, god-cannon tiger; abilities such as off map artillery; and to a lesser extent suppression are examples of checks. Over the past patches these checks are becoming less effective for blob control. KV8, German rocket half track, Katyusha have been adjusted and no longer effectively counter the blobs.

So whats a player left to do?

You get creative. You mass your own units and you throw them against the opponents blob. 2 Uber squads? I raise you my 3 shock troop squads. It's an arm race for the ultimate blob

May the largest blob win.

There is the catch though.

If Relic reverts a lot of the adjustments there will be a whole lot of whines about units getting one shotted. ISU, love it and hate it, was an effective blob counter. Obviously, that was over powered and corrected.


Yep and therin lies the rub.

USF has to own early game through mainly blobbing because they cant match the firepower of OKW infantry. So what is USF supposed to do? They outnumber and blob. What are you gonna try Green cover riflemen vs Obersoldaten with STGs? Yeah that wont end well for you...

Now if they implement good blob counters this screws them most of all and their armor certainly wont save them...

So we have the current dynamic. USF blobs because sadly that is their real strength vs OKW not so much Ost because LMG and BAR dynamic is pretty good.
9 Jul 2014, 20:08 PM
#30
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2014, 20:03 PMNapalm
Over the past patches these checks are becoming less effective for blob control. KV8, German rocket half track, Katyusha have been adjusted and no longer effectively counter the blobs.


Well the problem with those units wasn't so much that they countered blobs, but that they countered anything with 2 feet and a rifle. Yes they fought blobs well, but that was just a side-effect of the fact that they annihilated non-blobs just as hard.

The best counter to blobs would be increased damage to units within the blobs. I used to say increased accuracy, but I realise that increased damage would increase the effectiveness explosive counters against them as well.
9 Jul 2014, 20:14 PM
#31
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2



Well the problem with those units wasn't so much that they countered blobs, but that they countered anything with 2 feet and a rifle. Yes they fought blobs well, but that was just a side-effect of the fact that they annihilated non-blobs just as hard.


You got it. That is the fine act of balancing.

My personal opinion is that it is impossible to deal with blobs at a balance level. There will always be blobs in this game and they will be effective.
9 Jul 2014, 20:17 PM
#32
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2014, 20:14 PMNapalm


You got it. That is the fine act of balancing.

My personal opinion is that it is impossible to deal with blobs at a balance level. There will always be blobs in this game and they will be effective.


More infantry lethality. Problem solved. You running at me in cover? Ok you just took twice the casualties I did before I retreated.

Tanks arent such a problem because of Maps infantry however is. Also more effective mines. I think there are ways to make blobbing punished. Katushya, Arty, Werfer, Stuka having increased accuracy against blobs would be another way.
9 Jul 2014, 20:23 PM
#33
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2



Katushya, Arty, Werfer, Stuka having increased accuracy against blobs would be another way.


That is a pretty cool idea right there.
9 Jul 2014, 20:40 PM
#34
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

At least in vCoH you can actually set traps for the blobs, but with CoH2's half finished faction design Relic forgot to give any kind of trap to the German factions. I WANT MY GOLIATH!!!
9 Jul 2014, 20:51 PM
#35
avatar of warfiction

Posts: 46

select 3 or more units at the same time, should be considered blob.
It would be nice by doing that this give small penalties in speed and armor and maybe give then a litle more will to figth... and that make sense is you have 400 soldier they walk slower then 7, and are more susceptible to damage etc... that add more strategic value.
9 Jul 2014, 21:07 PM
#36
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

I got steamrolled early game by a Scavenger user. The Jaeger infantry squad did high DPS while the sturmpios and volks blob closed in and just rolled over my rifles time and time again. My 50 cals were not enough.
9 Jul 2014, 21:14 PM
#37
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

NO PENALTIES. The blob penalty is the most ridiculous idea to get rid of blobbing. Why does blobbing exists? because it's easy to micro, but that would also make the army more vulnerable to splash damage.

However, it is the players that must punish the act not the game. Set more traps for the Germans to use against the Americans. The Americans and Soviets already have demo charges ( which aren't used a lot funny enough ) but the Germans have no traps at all. We need goliaths and demo charges for the Germans.


9 Jul 2014, 21:37 PM
#38
avatar of 5trategos

Posts: 449

I really don't understand in what case blobbing is ever a problem in this game. I very rarely, if ever, encounter it and when I do, it's someone who just picked up the game and is learning the hard way how not to play.

There are plenty of tools to counter blobbing already in place and they work well (Nades, mgs, mines, suppression abilities (call-ins and unit-triggered), the new halftracks, medium tanks, bunkers, some heavy tanks, arty).

Can anyone post a link to some 1v1 high level play where blobbing was used to win despite facing the proper counters?
9 Jul 2014, 21:43 PM
#39
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 879

Well, stuff like the OKW and Ostheer officer provide nice bonuses.

Concentrating forces is a legitimate tactic, combined with focus fire, 3-4 squads of anything can annihilate 1-2 enemy units before you have time to retreat. That's my biggest issue, which isn't exactly the same as blobbing.
9 Jul 2014, 22:30 PM
#40
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

On the contrary, you're getting blobbing mixed up with spamming. Spamming is when you make a lot of the same unit regardless of how you use it. Blobbing is when you put a bunch of units into one big mob and move them all around at once with no attention to cover or tactics. Often times they overlap, such as a blob made up of 5 Riflesquads, but not always.

Spam takes more effort to use, because you still need cover and tactics. Spam is often a side-effect of other units being less effective even with combined arms, than simply building one type. It happens because the weakness of building one unit type is still stronger than the weakness of diverting resources to another type.

Blobbing takes little effort or risk for high payout and is popular among low - mid tier players, even moreso with Americans since they can create the most versatile blobs. The biggest blobs (what I call "critical mass") can even steamroll things meant to counter them, like Machine Guns and Tanks.


+1

I think blobbing for all factions needs to be addressed but especially for the U.S where it seems very prevalent.
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