Anti tank weapons killing infantry

I know such things can always happen when there is a random luck factor in a game, but for my taste it happens a bit too often that dedicated anti tank weapons like Antitank Guns, Tank Destroyers like Jacksons or SU-85s or Bazookas kill infantry.

It happens lately a lot to me that I approach for example an American Anti Tank weapon and it kills half my Obersoldaten squad before they are even close with two consecutive hits.

Bazookas seem more accurate than Panzerschrecks to me against infantry, and Americans tend to have a lot of them and so it often happens that I lose more guys to their Bazookas in the initial firing than I lose to his actual rifles over the course of the fight. Often this forces instant retreats on my elite soldiers because they have only 4 guys in their squad; Volksgrenadiers and Panzerfüsiliers don't care as much about it.

Personally I would prefer if those kind of weapons for all factions were slightly less accurate against infantry, without nerfing them against vehicles that they should be good against.

Agreed. Realistically, I'm sure an anti-tank gun could kill a guy, but I don't like how often this happens in the game, especially that it's so erratic and unpredictable. Exception being ZiS, which fills a more general function. ZiS should have some anti-infantry ability, everything else should be incapable of killing infantry, like the anti-tank guns in vCoH.

The AT guns in this game are already extremely weak against infantry because all they fire is AP rounds (except for the ZIS3 barrage) which have close to 0 splash damage. These weapons have accuracy ranging roughly from 5% up close to 2.5% at max ranges. With infantry target size being 1, this means that only 1 in 20 shots from up close will hit, up to 1 in 40 at max range. I feel this is not a problem at all.

Yep, actually all guns including pak40, pak43, and especially SU-85 and Slugger (Jackson) should be able to shoot HE rounds as those always did. I feel it really strange looking when 2 field guns are supporting infantry in a fight and no enemies die...

You know, frontal attack on field gun shuld be possible but extremly risky, now its most common tactic, you dont need to flank cause thosa guns cant kill you.

Once a Pak-40 one-shotted my sniper team.
Also the Pak-43 has very good accuracy vs the 120mms

I agree although if AT guns could fire HE rounds then they would go up in price and become less affordable in their primary role (destroying tanks).

Not sure if it's an imagined effect, but the AOE changes awhile back seem to have increased AT gun and (especially) rocket weaponry effectiveness when shooting infantry.

RE blob (3-4 squads) with double bazookas gib infantry surprisingly well.

I had 3 AT guns fire on their own to a enemy approaching blob of 4 volks (volksgrenadier squad), they each fired 1 shot, but in that they missed their original target, and the shots landed behind the first volks killing 5 volks soldier models, so usually when AT guns manage to hit a single squad, that is just luck with RNG, but when shooting to a blobs of infantry you dont even have to be accurate to score some hits

It's a side-effect of how ballistic weapons (all tank guns and AT weapons) work, there's no way to fix it. This goes for all AT guns, AT Rockets, Tank Guns, etc.

Basically there are 2 systems in place, the first one works like Accuracy × Target Size = Chance of guaranteed hit. If a hit is guaranteed, the second system does not need to come into play, and the shot will hit nomatter what even if it has to phase through walls or turn in mid-air. Soldiers have a Target Size of 1.

The second system is Scatter, in the event the shot is not a guaranteed hit, it may still hit depending on the vehicle's scatter. The lower the scatter, the more accurate the shots will be. AOE is also important, it's effective for all shots, but AT weapons have extremely small AOE, their AOE is about the size of a Grenadier's boot.

The accuracy of an AT Gun is 0.04 at long range, that's a 6% chance to hit a Soldier. Against say, a Tiger Tank, that chance is 0.04 × 22, an 88% chance to guarantee a hit. But even if it doesn't guarantee a hit, the scatter may still allow the shot to connect with the Tiger Tank.


The problem is you can't lower the accuracy because it'll effect armour far more than infantry. You can't decrease the scatter to compensate because it'll effect infantry more still. The most you can do is take the 6% chance and random luck as it is.

Yep, actually all guns including pak40, pak43, and especially SU-85 and Slugger (Jackson) should be able to shoot HE rounds as those always did. I feel it really strange looking when 2 field guns are supporting infantry in a fight and no enemies die...

You know, frontal attack on field gun shuld be possible but extremly risky, now its most common tactic, you dont need to flank cause thosa guns cant kill you.

Right, but this isn't a WWII simulator. In real life an anti-tank gun out in the open certainly could not survive multiple shots from a tank like 30 yards away, but that's something you see all the time in the game.

That feeling when you get your german sniper snipe by at guns.
Pray to RNG gods and have faith.

Right, but this isn't a WWII simulator. In real life an anti-tank gun out in the open certainly could not survive multiple shots from a tank like 30 yards away, but that's something you see all the time in the game.

The main thing that differs RTS from a simulator is the scale, I mean all the soldiers, tanks, guns and so on have ridicolously small ranges in order to make games more dynamic and fit all the units (including artilery and mortars) on really tiny maps.

Of course that doesn't have to include changing units efficiency, field/at guns are low so targeting infantry that close is very hard job even with HE shells (because of the angle) so those could have the same AOE as a tank but much worse accurancy vs low and small targets like infantry.
On the other hand they should still be effective against buildings, that's really important because a gun firing at a building for 15 minutes doing nothing doesn't even look unrealistic but simply silly.

The problem is you can't make them have too high spread because of how AT weapons work.

Short version: If you increase the spread, they'll be less likely to hit Tanks.

Long version: http://www.coh2.org/topic/19587/anti-tank-weapons-killing-infantry/post/175066

Yeah bazookas seem to be the biggest offender of this, they are hitting infantry pretty regularly.

And puppchen apparently... i thought i was safe storming an at gun with infantry head on?

Yeah bazookas seem to be the biggest offender of this, they are hitting infantry pretty regularly.

This may seem so, because they shoot faster then shrecks and its not like shrecks weren't sniping inf since.. forever.

And if there is any issue with AT weapons hitting infantry, then its PTRS not hitting them enough.
After all, they were used as beefed up, clumsy "sniper rifles" as well.

I lost a 100% health (newly spawned) FJ squad to a bazooka round from a captain yesterday. Instant squad wipe. Kreygasm

I noticed that after WFA come out, those AT gun like Zis/Pak/OKW AT gun start to killing more infantry than it could before WFA.

I really suprise that there was a Zis managed to kill 2 models full health Volksgrenadier .

The problem is you can't make them have too high spread because of how AT weapons work.

Short version: If you increase the spread, they'll be less likely to hit Tanks.

Long version: http://www.coh2.org/topic/19587/anti-tank-weapons-killing-infantry/post/175066

What you actually can do is for example increase the spread and double all vehicle sizes at the same time.

I mean the number that is used to count if the shell hits as size of course.

I lost a 100% health (newly spawned) FJ squad to a bazooka round from a captain yesterday. Instant squad wipe. Kreygasm

Thats one of these "when the planets line up" scenarios.