Remember the Flammenwurfer?

Guys, i really miss this unit, it has been nerfed to extinction. Oops nerfed isn't a good word, but the fact that it has been moved to tier 3 (you must be tier 3 to get the upgrade) really hurts its usage. I feel like there are a lot more units in OST arsenal that have identity crisis.

The flammenwurfer
Panther (after nerfs)
Brummbar

In the soviet arsenal there are some great units that have stayed relavent. The t70 is awesome if you can recon it, the halftrack is becoming used, penals are more widespread, m3 cars are a new meta, kv8 still makes an appearance, etc.. I felt like some of these units before had the same problem the OST units mentioned above have now.

How can we fix this? I never thought the flammenwurfer needed a change, you could easily deal with it by researching at nades and guards. I think its time we change that unit again and make it relevant. It was one of my favorite units before.

I was glad when the Flammenwerfer was nerfed. It was killing everything on retreat and making the game less fun for both sides (unless you enjoy easy wins). I play mostly Germans btw but still I wouldn't like this unit to be brought back the way it was.

I think it's great you have to wait 'til T3 for the upgrade. It makes early game infantry play possible instead of having to desperately rush for the counter to a unit that can take away the whole map from you as well as half your units. Deploy Flammenwerfer and cue Benny Hill music :/


On the other hand the soviet have a T1 flammenwerfer in the form of M3. I think this should be nerfed to extinction too. Squad-wiping units shouldn't be around in t1. I think flammenwerfer should be banned from HT like sniper and units shouldn't be able to fire from HTs that are moving.

Guys, i really miss this unit, it has been nerfed to extinction. Oops nerfed isn't a good word, but the fact that it has been moved to tier 3 (you must be tier 3 to get the upgrade) really hurts its usage. I feel like there are a lot more units in OST arsenal that have identity crisis.

The flammenwurfer
Panther (after nerfs)
Brummbar

I daresay it would be wiser to wait til after the WFA expansion is released before judging if certain units have no niche.

The CE flamethrower is terrible, at least compared to the penals' flamethrower. Tier 1 allowing units to ride the m3 is the source of all early game complaints.

Delaying flame upgrade after teching to T3 was just stupid. Now no one on earth will use FHT because by the time you have it, his time is already passed and it's not worthing anymore the investment. In middle game you have better things to spend your amo and fuel on. FHT was just erased from the game. Another briliant Relic deed.

The CE flamethrower is terrible, at least compared to the penals' flamethrower. Tier 1 allowing units to ride the m3 is the source of all early game complaints.

I'm pretty sure they use the same flamethrower, the big difference comes from the Penal's 5 SVT's vs CE's 3 Mosin's.

It is still a very viable upgrade, but more so in 2v2 than in 1v1. Most people go t2 and then t3, and on urban maps(kholodny, semoisky) it's really useful to get the flammenwerfer.

Delaying flame upgrade after teching to T3 was just stupid. Now no one on earth will use FHT because by the time you have it, his time is already passed and it's not worthing anymore the investment. In middle game you have better things to spend your amo and fuel on. FHT was just erased from the game. Another briliant Relic deed.

It was this or taking out the reinforcement capabilities.

More viable on 2v2+ rather than 1v1.

Since the early/mid game is extended you actually have time to use while there are still counters to it. Thing is you still need fine micro to avoid AT nade range or use it against T1/Shock/Maxim. Even against Guards can work to "finish" them off. Don´t initiate a combat with FHT rather than support it.

I too miss this bastard. Even though it would BBQ all my precious precious conscripts...

The ultimate FU to maxim spam..

Delaying flame upgrade after teching to T3 was just stupid. Now no one on earth will use FHT because by the time you have it, his time is already passed and it's not worthing anymore the investment. In middle game you have better things to spend your amo and fuel on. FHT was just erased from the game. Another briliant Relic deed.

100% true.

I too miss this bastard. Even though it would BBQ all my precious precious conscripts...

The ultimate FU to maxim spam..

So true. If you drove it into a mob of Conscripts, you just got hit with 3 AT 'nades and it was dead. If you drove it into a mob of Maxims, it punished them hard for spamming Maxims.

i for one don't miss it.

It was the ISU-152 of the early game, except that it was possible to kill. If you kill it, you win, if you don't you lose. It almost forced you to go gaurds.

I hated it and it made entire games centered around just one unit. the FHT.

Don't want it back. Same with an early t-70, altho that was still not as bad as an early FHQ.


That said, something could be done to make it more viable. I would suggest a damage increase. Since its a T3 unit now, it should do good damage (not as much as a kv-8 but more than it has now)

t-70 needs a cost decrease to 55 fuel.

Why do people always think somebody wants the old unit back, exactly as it was?

Why not as much as a KV-8?

Used to be overpowered. Now I never see it. By the time you get it, the first T-34 is imminent. Then it gets two-shot killed.

If it appears that late, it should scale better into the late game. The old vet modifiers would achieve that as they made it possible to stand 3 hits on vet.

Either this or lower the ammunition cost for the upgrade to 100ish. Right now the ammo is better spent on MGs.

Its damage too is quite weak.the main use i miss is slaughtering maxim spam in urban maps.

I think it was absolutely fine the way it was.
It was never (I was out a few months tough) 'the new meta', because it was a hell of an investment.

Forget the LMG's
Forget upgraded bunkers
Forget riflenades

Instead you save up for that one flamehalftrack that indeed did some damage, but I really think cost - damage - strength of the unit was in place.

Anyway, move it back to t2 pls.

Why do people always think somebody wants the old unit back, exactly as it was?

Probably because that hypothetical somebody pretty much says that either in the OP or one of the following posts.

There is still a bunch of people who miss their 4 minute german KV-8.

I believe the thing with sdkfz 251 now is the same as with t-70, it's really good unit that can be universally used to cover long front line or kill infantry behind it even in late game but players don't use it because it's expensive and appeares late (the same drawbacks as t-70). In fact you can still use it with a success but it's not op now and most players forgot about it but there are some facts you have to remember:
1. It's tier 2,5 not 3 and at the same time russian HT is truly a tier 3 vehicle and it's used really often now, even when german tanks are all over the map, 251 still comes earlier and costs the same to upgrade but is rarely used.
2. You can and you really should have an unupgreaded halftrack on the field in tier 2 play so when the HQ upgrade is done you don't need to produce it, the investment is only the munitions you need not any fuel, and its really early.
3. That delay to flammenwerfer halftrack is something that can hurt people who play t1 + t2 into tigers and that is good! Those call in tactics should be punished in some ways.
Summing up the problem is not in the unit, the damage or the time when it can be upgunned but in players who upgrade the HQ only thinking of StuGs and P4s coming, forgeting about good old chap flamenhalftrack. Believe me I menaged to get 40 kills inside the window on that beast this patch

I believe the thing with sdkfz 251 now i the same as with t-70, it's really good unit that can be universally used to cover long front line or kill infantry behind it even in late game but players don't use it because it's expensive and appeares late (the same drawbacks as t-70). In fact you can still use it with a success but it's not op now and most players forgot about it but there are some facts you have to remember:
1. It's tier 2,5 not 3 and at the same time russian HT is truly a tier 3 vehicle and it's used really often now, even when german tanks are all over the map, 251 still comes earlier and costs the same to upgrade but is rarely used.
2. You can and you really should have an unupgreaded halftrack on the field in tier 2 play so when the HQ upgrade is done you don't need to produce it, the investment is only the munitions you need not any fuel, and its really early.
3. That delay to flammenwerfer halftrack is something that can hurt people who play t1 + t2 into tigers and that is good! Those call in tactics should be punished in some ways.
Summing up the problem is not in the unit, the damage or the time when it can be upgunned but in players who upgrade the HQ only thinking of StuGs and P4s coming, forgeting about good old chap flamenhalftrack. Believe me I menaged to get 40 kills inside the window on that beast this patch

Good point. But it comes a little late and those Zaney Maxims can give people hell before it comes out.