Panzergranadiers!!! Does it worth ?

Yeah I agree with the Special Forces label.
Thats pretty accurate.
Think of them as a Fascist Special assault team with sniper rifles,Assault rifles, androcket launchers that you can also use to sneak around with using Ambush Camo.(Jaeger infantry doc)

Which doesn't change the fact that if u use them as fragile surprise sepcial forces unit..then only german infantry remaining are grenadiers.Basically ur saying grenadiers are all u have in terms of infantry..ur not allowed other options...pretty boring and responsible for grenspam.

I usually build one or maybe two to upgrade with schrecks to assist my units with AT, and i usually leave one behind cover to guard a lone VP/random point. It usually works as it wipes conscripts, CE, guards that get a moved to the point and are completely forgotten. I also found out that grenadiers are immune to suppression if they are in green cover...

They're not immune, just extremely resistant. A single Maxim will take awhile to suppress, but 2 will get the job done.

You pay the extra initial mp cost for assault rifles and the bundle nade ability. The reinforce cost is to prevent spamming. You also get the ability to upgrade to most powerfull at infantry in the game.

Dude CC weapons the mp44 included are currently the weakest weapons in the game. Even if the PG cost was reduced all the way to 240 mp i would still spam grens with lmg's over PG's as i consider rifles carbines and lmg's to be better all round weapons then the very niche cc weapons.

They're not immune, just extremely resistant. A single Maxim will take awhile to suppress, but 2 will get the job done.

Nah, the thing is that it´s just easier to put 4man in cover rather than 6 man squad. That lonely guy outside cover will always fuck you up.

Dude CC weapons the mp44 included are currently the weakest weapons in the game. Even if the PG cost was reduced all the way to 240 mp i would still spam grens with lmg's over PG's as i consider rifles carbines and lmg's to be better all round weapons then the very niche cc weapons.

That's because grenadiers over perform. Also grenadiers have a rifle grenade which makes it so the ost does not even have to risk flanking. Hence why most people to choose to use grenadiers. However, just because grenadiers have an ability they should not have outside of a doctrine does not mean panzer grenadiers under perform.

It is kinda like choosing to get a tiger instead of a panther. The tiger clearly over performs but it does not mean the panther sucks or that the panther should be way cheaper. The issue is the tiger is too good for it's cost at the moment.

When I play ost sure I could spam grenadiers.... however I like to build 1 or 2 panzer grenadiers into my build. I use them for flanking to gain vet. If I run into tank issues I quickly upgrade them to anti tank grenadiers and bust tanks.

It's the flexibility that attracts me to use panzer grenadiers. That and I tend not to abuse grenadier spam as one day relic could balance them correctly and I will have an easy transition into the new meta.

They are very good at their role. I often get high returns for their investment. It does sting when they get squad wiped so you have to use them wisely. A combination of mortor smoke and pg bundle nade do wonders.

That's because grenadiers over perform. Also grenadiers have a rifle grenade which makes it so the ost does not even have to risk flanking. Hence why most people to choose to use grenadiers. However, just because grenadiers have an ability they should not have outside of a doctrine does not mean panzer grenadiers under perform.

It is kinda like choosing to get a tiger instead of a panther. The tiger clearly over performs but it does not mean the panther sucks or that the panther should be way cheaper. The issue is the tiger is too good for it's cost at the moment.

When I play ost sure I could spam grenadiers.... however I like to build 1 or 2 panzer grenadiers into my build. I use them for flanking to gain vet. If I run into tank issues I quickly upgrade them to anti tank grenadiers and bust tanks.

It's the flexibility that attracts me to use panzer grenadiers. That and I tend not to abuse grenadier spam as one day relic could balance them correctly and I will have an easy transition into the new meta.

They are very good at their role. I often get high returns for their investment. It does sting when they get squad wiped so you have to use them wisely. A combination of mortor smoke and pg bundle nade do wonders.

Hey everybody. Look who is sharing he's "experience" with Ostheer saying Panther is ok, Tiger is Op, pzgrenadiers are ok and grenadiers are OP.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197970528819

Dude CC weapons the mp44 included are currently the weakest weapons in the game. Even if the PG cost was reduced all the way to 240 mp i would still spam grens with lmg's over PG's as i consider rifles carbines and lmg's to be better all round weapons then the very niche cc weapons.

MP44s are not close combat weapons, they have the assault rifle profile and do good damage at all ranges.



NB. those numbers are per weapon so for the MP44 x4 for the squad output, LMG grens is 1xLMG42 plus 3x Kar98

No fighting please. I am sick of reading garbage posts just to find those that are on topic on this forum.

Stephenn, the true gentleman of Coh2. Learn from this guy, people. He is an inspiration by example.
Say what you mean, mean what you say, do not respond to the barbed insults and bait of trolls, and be gentleman.

This guy is the benchmark for a dignified and respectful community member.
Nobody wants to wade through the petty ad hominem for the good stuff here.
Nobody likes asshats who use threads as toilet for their crap.
(Except asshats)

Act like an asshat, and you will be disregarded and perceived as one.
Its not cool to be an asshat. Its cool to be like Stephenn.

If you want to be respected, acknowledged, listened to, have good and satisfying game discussion, be like this guy.

I would happily trawl through 100 hundred shitposts to find one post by this guy.
An asshats posts, I will no longer even read.
Dont even respond to asshats comments. Ignore them completely as you would a turd.
Responding inkind just brings you down to their level.
If you do, itsmlike take their poo, and wear it on ypur head like a hat, thinking you somehow beat them.
No, by responding and wearing their poo, you just became an asshat too.
Dont do it.

Ontopic of Pgrens:
The "problem" is imo, simple. They are very vulnerable to flame/aoe effects, for cost.
Its a predicament, but imo a core thing to keep in mind when using them.
Their assault potential is excellent, but as the game runs through its stages, you have to be increasingly wary of some random aoe costing you a sudden massive MP drain. Ironically, this kind of AoE is exactly one of Sovs generalised strengths. Mines, in particular, are a huge threat to PGrens. Its so tempting ro send them on hero patrol to solo cap and push remote lines, but all it takes is a single mine, and your fun field trip is ruined.

Its a complicted balance situation with them, because their role changes fundamentally as the game progresses, and they are very sensitive to what they are up against.

As other posters have pointed out, and as I have pointed out a few times, Ost is strange in its infantry disposition, due to scarcity of options. I dont agree with sentiments that state: "PGrens look crap, because Grens are so good".
I think thats a crap chute. Id rather see discussion focused on using PGrens according to their strengths, in each phase of the game, and development of strategies around that.

I perceive them very much as an "Elite" unit, that is very sensitive to how you use them. Fantastic results when playing to their strengths, but a terrible MP drain if used for a function that is no longer inline with the games current phase.

To help discussion follow that trend, how about laying down some axioms of good PGren use:

-Remember their MP drain. Thumbrule: Never expose them where they will lose more than 1 model.
-When AoE is still scarce, assault and aggressive. When AoE proliferates, relegate to a hard infantry flank support role.
-Exploit their solo AI capacity hard in early game. They can easily push a distant front on their own at this point. If you cenounter mines, stop this plan completely. Opponent is hedged against your bet, instead support Gren actions feom flankin major conflict points.
-Never assault directly against entrenched positions with PGrens. Grens go up the middle, PGrens xome up the flanks in cover.
-Shreks. Never alone. Always Gren support and meatshield. If you cant Faust it first, dont even bother with trying to Shrek it. The fire times are huge, and the process buggy. You need the vehicle snared, and furthermore you need a Gren meatshield up so youndont bleed precious PGrens.
-Grens are your anvil. PGrens, your hammer. Dont swing it till you have the perfect stroke lined up.
-PGrens like buildings. This is the one case they can anchor a flank in advance of your Grens arriving.
-PGrens + F/HT. Im convinced this has potential as a very AI resistant holding and capping synergy for fast and aggressive pushing along a secondary front. Meanwhile Gren blob and , ideally, MG holds the mainline. An expensive combo, but I have faith this is one direction the meta can yet take and is currently underused. Try it, and post results. I would be very interested to hear feedback on how that pans out.

+1, now PzGren is no longer the rusher for Ost, their main purpose is supporting Pak or MG42. Against pure cons spam they are fantastic, but sadly no body use this tactic anymore.(Extra note: if Soviet decides to go partisans, stick a pio + minesweeper with them and have fun blasting all those squishy partisans).

So Ostheer is supposed to have no attack infantry? I don´t own that assault grenadier commander. What option do I have left? Grens who have to keep the maximum distance and who can´t fire their MG on the move? Or the PGs who die just as fast and aren´t supposed to attack?

It´s hilarious how people try to argue that PGs still fill a role, while adding that there are multiple rules to follow to not immediately lose them. Meanwhile the Soviet player gets Ppshs and right click charges his conscripts with 33% more survivability and costing 100mp less.

Look at the replays... there are barely any PGs around. Hell, even if the ingame unit description admitted PGs are useless infantry, there would still be some people around here who would say they were balanced.

Yes. Pretty much.

About 1 PGren per build. Optional.

Otherwise, Gren spam as normal.

And I agree. Survival probably needs a look at-
But its quite clear Relic doesn't give a shit.

So we make do with what we have.

^^

Mechanized Assault commander is @ 50% off on steam right now.

PGrens are useless for "supporting" Paks and Mg-42s. Only with shrecks in houses they stand a chance to support a tank. Grens overperform them otherwise.

Let's just wait for 24th patch to see if they change Pgrens.

So Ostheer is supposed to have no attack infantry?

Pretty much just like soviets are supposed to have no long range infantry outside of doctrine.

Or how they are supposed to have no AT infantry.

Or how penals operate only if certain choices are made(guards or gtfo).

Also, its not like soviets have assault infantry in normal tiers either so the grass isn't greener on the other side really.

If soviets go for no shock doctrine they don't have any assault infantry as well and no, ppsh don't make cons into assault infantry, they make them moderately stand up to grens in late game.

Please use the new and improved PPSH before you make claims to how good they are on assault. Absolute 0 range. Your really better off saving the Muni imho. PPSH is terrible. Hit T and you take 0 casulties yay 0 mid range DPS!

PPSH is a paid nerf imho. It makes Scripts weaker to both Flame Pios and Pgrens.

Conscript ppsh can't even kill a single model of HMG42 team if you hit retreat.

if you hit retreat.

Mission accomplished.

Swords aren´t suppose to kill people at distance.