Panther overnerfed

Minus teching cost.

Panther needs some buffs, but it is indeed very tricky unit to balance. Maybe indirect nerfs for call-ins, small blitz buff (in current form blitz is just useless) and little fuel cost reduction will help?

Do not forget its AI capabilities. t-34 are simply excellent at destroying AI . Dedicated counters should be far more cost effective then the generalist tanks as you are taking a huge risk with it.

I'm hardly player of the year, and my *only* problem with the old panther was the trololol turbo ability.

Apart from that it was manageable, in team games at least. Mines, ZiS, SU85.

I think the panther stats are fine, but I think the cost increase was a bit much. 175 fuel seems a bit too much when a Tiger is only slight more with no teching cost.

Panzerwerfer useless, Panther overnerfed, T4 is just not worth it anymore...

You didn't mention the Brummbar...

Are you sure it wasn't 50 before last patch?! So in fact it didn't get this "bonus" but have it from start instead?

I am more than convinced that it wasnt 50 range before. It always had 40.

The Panther is fine; the tech vs call-in structure is fucked up.

If you compare the panther to any other tank, you will find that it is fine for its cost. It has both good AT firepower and high range and good that make it a unit that you can get a lot out of with good micro. A panther can solo any soviet medium tank (how well they solo depends on your ability to use the 10 range advantage) and it can put the hurt on Soviet heavies.

The teching cost isn't even that much of a problem vs soviet stock units. Against Soviet T4 you have plenty of time to tech up because Soviet T4 is not something that requires a immediate response. Against Soviet T3 it is trickier, but once you have a panther it is a big problem for soviet T3 units.

The problem with the panther is that this game has a cancer, and that cancer is the call-in mechanic. A panther is cost effective against a T34/85 or sherman, but it's not cost effective when the panther is outnumbered 2-1 right of the bat because those call-ins don't require a fuel investment for tech. Likewise a panther is not cost effective when you could just get a tiger for less resources.

If the no-tech call-in cancer gets fixed, the panther will automatically be a good unit again.

The Panther is fine; the tech vs call-in structure is fucked up.

If you compare the panther to any other tank, you will find that it is fine for its cost. It has both good AT firepower and high range and good that make it a unit that you can get a lot out of with good micro. A panther can solo any soviet medium tank (how well they solo depends on your ability to use the 10 range advantage) and it can put the hurt on Soviet heavies.

The teching cost isn't even that much of a problem vs soviet stock units. Against Soviet T4 you have plenty of time to tech up because Soviet T4 is not something that requires a immediate response. Against Soviet T3 it is trickier, but once you have a panther it is a big problem for soviet T3 units.

The problem with the panther is that this game has a cancer, and that cancer is the call-in mechanic. A panther is cost effective against a T34/85 or sherman, but it's not cost effective when the panther is outnumbered 2-1 right of the bat because those call-ins don't require a fuel investment for tech. Likewise a panther is not cost effective when you could just get a tiger for less resources.

If the no-tech call-in cancer gets fixed, the panther will automatically be a good unit again.

No fucking hell, this is the most shitty unit in Ostheer & ___ they can offer, the nerfed panther doesn't do much more than a P4, losing all anti-infantry power, and super high teching cost.

This is a shit, period.

I am more than convinced that it wasnt 50 range before. It always had 40.

No, it was always 50. The (simplified) scale goes:

30 - All Rifles (Line of sight for all non-recon units)
40 - Most Tanks
50 - Panther, StuG, Puma, (Line of sight for recon units)
60 - SU-76, SU-85, AT Guns
100- ISU-152, Elefant, Pak 43

Then i really have to ask myself why i thought of it as a 40 range unit. Weird that i didnt notice it in my playtime of 700 hrs...

I knew about the range of all other units, still thanks.

No problem. What probably threw you off is that Tanks have 30 LOS but their guns have 40 Range. I wouldn't have noticed nearly as quick as I did if I didn't constantly stat-mine

atguns are 60 range, right?

Yes, I put it in the wrong line. Thanks for catching that.

Well it takes 390 fuel to get the first one now.It used to take 310 fuel.50 fuel due to increased teching(which also costs heavy mp drain,and u would also need a fuel cache to make it in good time),30 fuel due to unit cost.And 175 fuel for each after that.

Pen buffed..not good for much..already had good penetration.
Vet nerf,blitz killed,HP nerfed.

So then u have a unit to get which u need to make huge fuel 390 plus mp sacrifices....then u get a niche unit that can't force a defensive line,can't kill infantry,must retreat from AT guns..and then 2 t34/85 or shermans roll in and kill it.And that gents is the end of the game.

It has 1 job,it can't perform that job while hindering ur entire fuel and manpower reserves throughout the game with teching price,unit price and cache requirement.If it can't beat medium tanks..then what good is it for.

Tiger..way better....last german turreted tank left standing.

Simply put costs too much,can't perform its intended role due to cheapness of enemy mediums.

panther is OK if your opponent goes for either T3 or T4, by the time you get your panther, assuming you stalled decently with paks or something, has 2-3 t-34/76s out, which the panther can compete with quite nicely.

However if your opponent goes for call in tanks you are SCREWED.

It's more of an issue with call ins i think that with the panther itself. It's a bit too expensive, but otherwise its OK.

panther is OK if your opponent goes for either T3 or T4, by the time you get your panther, assuming you stalled decently with paks or something, has 2-3 t-34/76s out, which the panther can compete with quite nicely.

However if your opponent goes for call in tanks you are SCREWED.

It's more of an issue with call ins i think that with the panther itself. It's a bit too expensive, but otherwise its OK.

I will lose definitely to 3 t-34s...2 t-34s with mark target.He will have 3 t-34s before u can get 2nd panther.

OKW will also get the Panther. At least that was listed somewhere on this forum.

So I hope we will see some further adjustments to it.

As I already said, the cost isn´t that much of a problem (I play 2vs2 mostly though).

The thing should be expensive and have a better performance. If the German player wants mediocre performance, he can go for the Panzer IV.

I will lose definitely to 3 t-34s...2 t-34s with mark target.He will have 3 t-34s before u can get 2nd panther.

EH? Is it not supposed to lose to 300 fuel worth of Soviet Medium Armor? Ever hear of Panzerfaust/Pak/Range?

If people can take on or at least force retreat T34/85s with Stugs then why cant you do the same with the Panther for crying out loud?

I think its too expensive. I think the entire Tier is too expensive. But it performs fine. And the MG upgrades got buffed did you all forget? They do very well at AI now (compared to what they used to do)

I will lose definitely to 3 t-34s...2 t-34s with mark target.He will have 3 t-34s before u can get 2nd panther.

3 T34s are 300 fuel.

Panther is 175.

2 T34 are 200 fuel+doctrinal support.

And you should have at least 2 paks, so why they were not facing advancing T34s?

Don't act like Panther is all you have on the field.

OKW will also get the Panther. At least that was listed somewhere on this forum.

So I hope we will see some further adjustments to it.

As I already said, the cost isn´t that much of a problem (I play 2vs2 mostly though).

The thing should be expensive and have a better performance. If the German player wants mediocre performance, he can go for the Panzer IV.

It still can almost Solo an IS2 in a Slugfest. It can take on an IS2 with kiting. If they buffed it much more it would be a 175 fuel tank that counters a 200 fuel tank and the top of the Soviet heavies...

Sounds like you want a non doctrinal IS2 hard counter.

3 T34s are 300 fuel.

Panther is 175.

2 T34 are 200 fuel+doctrinal support.

And you should have at least 2 paks, so why they were not facing advancing T34s?

Don't act like Panther is all you have on the field.

1 panther requires ~400 fuel.
Also t-34s can kill infantry.Secondly ..he too will have zis/guards,not just t-34s.
Thirdly....the teching price for germans will take up heavy MP drain,plus atleast one cache..if u make too much AT u will be overrun.Teching for sov is not as manpower intensive.