Panther overnerfed

Its a 50 range super fast tank destroyer with the best non doctrinal armor values

Your proposed change would make the P4 pointless to build.

Well not really. In 2vs2 games my mate usually can skip tier 2 and get fast Panzer IV in 9 mins.

for the Panther it would take at least 17 mins to get the first panther on the field.

If we use our " Special tactic " we can get panther out in 13 mins but the problem is that at that time, the enemy have no tank yet( if they do ,mostly T70 and T34 ). Mostly they have infantry and I have to get a Brumbar out just to kill infantry. I would prefer the get the Panther out than a brumbar at 13 mins you know ? ain't nobody got enough fuel for another Tier 4 tank.

So er yeah, I would like the Panther to be at least able to do something on the field, not just killing tank for the price of 175.

Consider that this tank got more risk than a SU-85 ( Engine can be damage if try to flank ) , don't have focus fireand stuff ", they can at least lower the fuel price down to 150 fuel if they watn to keep it this way ( Low anti-infantry ) or upgrade the anti-infantry like a Pz4 or T34/85mm ( Keep the fuel price the same )

Seriously, I got no problem with this tank at all expect that it's anti-infantry capable right now is too low, not worth the price of 175. I believe that's why people favor call in tank like Tiger more than this shit.

All they have to do is increase is Anti-Infantry or lower the fuel price that's all!

My experience with the Panther:

1v1 - The panther is actually a great support weapon to the Tiger, etc...if you decide to say go dbl pak into Tiger, and then tech t4 for panther support, considering it has speed to it's adv, while the Tiger does not. Though I've found the Panther by itself is not very viable in 1v1 alone, if you plan to go t4 only after t2 without a heavier tank(i.e. Tiger, etc.). While it can still be effective, the delay by teching gives the Soviet player a big window of opportunity and preparation by the time you do get the Panther.

2v2 - Now while the Panther is less viable in 1v1, in 2v2 I've found huge success with it in countering/holding off t-34/85 hordes, rather than going t3 with Tiger etc....Instead of holding off for a Tiger or elefant, let your partner go a Tiger or elefant doc while you go for example dbl pak into t4 dbl panther with say the Tiger Ace doc as a back-up fail-safe or very late game support for the Panthers, to be able to push on the battlefield. So the Panther is imho viable in 2v2.

3v3 - Now 3v3 I would still say it is just as viable as it is in 2v2, but it requires your partners going the heavy counters, like ele/tiger, so only you can go Panthers for that mobile support.

4v4 - 4v4 is a different story altogether. I find Panthers are meh in their job in this realm. Reason being is 99% of the time 4v4 players simply stack fuel until they can get the big guns, and when they do get them, they have an endless supply of em'. Which, the only way to beat a horde of big guns, is to get a horde of big guns(ele vs ISU meta is all there is unfortunately in 4v4)

So, overall I would say maybe a very slight decrease in cost for teching to, or builing t4 would suffice in balancing out the panther a little better, or simply reducing the fuel cost to say 165.

Isn't this to much for a 1v1? Such fuel quantity to get a Tiger & a Panther - considering teching costs and all? If you have that huge amount of fuel, isn't much more viable to go double Tiger than Panther + Tiger?
Same for 2v2, instead building Panthers, isn't better to just call Tigers (you and your partner)? Until middle game and even beyond t3 + paks/even pzgrens with schreks will do just fine, then instead complicating your life with a versatile but so fragile and expensive unit with no such great AI abilities as Panther, wouldn't be more reasonable to go Tiger?
This is the problem. And the answer is not nerf Tiger. You will still see this unit used more than the Panther, unless it's nerfed to the ground. The solution in my view will be to cut the Panther costs in 2 ways:
1. a serious fuel cost decrease and maybe even a small mp one.
2. a smaller fuel cost decrease + T4 teching fuel cost decrease.

Isn't this to much for a 1v1? Such fuel quantity to get a Tiger & a Panther - considering teching costs and all? If you have that huge amount of fuel, isn't much more viable to go double Tiger than Panther + Tiger?
Same for 2v2, instead building Panthers, isn't better to just call Tigers (you and your partner)? Until middle game and even beyond t3 + paks/even pzgrens with schreks will do just fine, then instead complicating your life with a versatile but so fragile and expensive unit with no such great AI abilities as Panther, wouldn't be more reasonable to go Tiger?
This is the problem. And the answer is not nerf Tiger. You will still see this unit used more than the Panther, unless it's nerfed to the ground. The solution in my view will be to cut the Panther costs in 2 ways:
1. a serious fuel cost decrease and maybe even a small mp one.
2. a smaller fuel cost decrease + T4 teching fuel cost decrease.

I must say that I agree with SSHeini.

A double Tiger with Pak support is better than teching so much and then get a Panther THAT only good against armor but shit against infantry. ( At least the T34/85mm and Panzer IV can kill infantry than this tank "

For 2vs2, It's better to get tier 3 and then Elephant + Tiger. We should remember that infantry numbers will always be more than tank so a P4 / Tiger can decrease their manpower better by killing infantry. Don't even use Panther to shoot infantry, it's just a waste of time

Because of this cost tech that make people ( Rus and Ger ) always do the same shit: Wait for Call in tank.

And please, if you not gonna decrease the price than at least make this tank got the same anti infantry firepower like T34/85mm or Panzer IV.

Not really relate to the topic but this is what I mostly see from people playing 2vs2( From Top players to Normal ). Mostly not always please remember that

1 ) I see lots of russian in 2vs2 start doing M3, Penal then Guards and masturbate until pack of T34/85mm came out ( That shit is so good against infantry and tank ). Other guy will go with ISU commander ( either Shock or Guards ), go tier 3 and then wait for ISU.

2 ) I see German players either do tier 1,2,3 or 1 and 3 then rush for a fast ostwind or P4. Nobody use Tier 4 ( at least in 99% of my game when I play Soviet ). A Elephant most of the time doing his job is to counter the ISU.

ISU is so good at squad wiped that makes your Vet 3 squad looks like a joke. Even if you keep them alive after so many intense micro, 80% that they will get wiped by either a 30muni mine or 1 shot ISU.

3 ) T34/85mm, ISU, Tiger, Elephant are the most popular tank on the block right now. IS2 is still there but I don't see a lot of people use it that much.

4 ) Do something about the god damn Russian mine. This thing squad wiped too much, it should only blow up like 2 or 3 man only, not the whole squad.
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Only reason for me to still go Tier 4 is when I use my special tactic to get Brumbar out in 12mins and after that is Panther. Panzerwerfer is a joke ( unless they faster the cool down )