This patch killed Katyusha and Werfer

You can make fun of my comment if you wish, but the Kat is supposed to provide you with a help to defeat the elephant. If you are T4 you need a long range unit to wear down the elephant, the kat can fill that role.

Yes penetration is worse, but they can prevent elephant from being repaired and force it to move. They also let you know where it is in the FOW.

tried it, didnt work.

katyushas is abysmal against elefants and misses so much in the fog its hard for them to kill even supporting units.

giving sight of the elefants is barely any use when the commander has recon planes to spot and halftracks still cant reliably kill recon planes.

while it is 'supposed' to be of some help, it is not the same as 'effective'.

It would take 100 barrages to kill an Elefant.

Katyusha is now useless I built some to try and fend of a heavy pak and even the concentrated barrage couldn't clear it and this is after 2 regular barrages.

Both units are literally terrible atm, pre patch they were fine I thought.

roll back the nerf (at least part way) Relic!

If they can't be buffed against infantry for whatever reason, make them work better against tanks. No, really.

If not damage-wise, well, they are high explosive, aren't they? Make them inflict criticals instead of damage : regardless of penetration, inflict crew shock, or even a chance at engine damage / gun damage, why not? That way any criticals will be repaired quickly (low damage), but it will still punish camping your Ele/ISU in one spot.

It would reward combined arms (criticals on their own don't mean anything if you don't follow up with an actual attack), spotting / prediction (it will reward you if you know where the heavies are waiting), punish camping, and facilitate rushes against heavies (even a crew shock would actually open up a window to rush an Ele with tanks, let alone a gun damage or an engine damage). Even after ISU/Ele are nerfed I would like Kats and Werfers to have a bit better AT role. There is no punishment for blobbing tanks at the moment except a few doctrinal airstrikes.

Maybe it is unrealistic for the rockets to damage tanks (not sure - isn't top armour of tanks usually paper thin)?

The thing here is COH2 rocket works differently from vCOH. In vCOH, remember how useless the nebel was? Then Relic gives rock Damages over time, which transform Nebel from borderline useless to godlike vs US .30cal + 57mm AT wall(Against Brit it's not even funny). In COH2, rocket has less AOE, deal less damage and arrive much later, all of that amounts to the fact that both rocket launcher units are even worse than normal mortar. Futhermore, in the old days rocket fire more accurately if u have line of sight on the unit, in COH2, accuracy is directly related to range and vet, nothing else.

You have to get absurdly close to reliably hit a target now, making you bring the support to the enemy instead of them having take risks to attack it behind your lines. Definitely overpriced for the risk/reward and loss of opportunity to field a tank. I'd be fine with the damage how it is if they were cheap enough to field 2.

I would be happy if they only suppressed infantry, wounded support teams, killed light vehicles and damaged tank engines. Right now they are as usefull as milking a one tit cow.

Damaging tank engines would be utterly awful. I don't want to give people the ability to disable every enemy tank on the map with one click.

The nebel desperately needs fixing to counter the ridiculous soviet T2 spam meta that is so common atm would also help with snipers.

Every Game T2 spam ->ISU get ele to counter and they send waves of zis guns which keep it at bay allowing ISU to cover VP.

German T4 is literally not worth building atm

You have to get absurdly close to reliably hit a target now, making you bring the support to the enemy instead of them having take risks to attack it behind your lines. Definitely overpriced for the risk/reward and loss of opportunity to field a tank. I'd be fine with the damage how it is if they were cheap enough to field 2.

+1 well said

Panzerwerfer is fine because of it's low scatter, it actually hits stuff. The Katyusha however never ever hits anything. Even when perfectly aimed against blobs, you have to get so lucky to actually kill stuff.

You can drive closer to decrease the scatter though.

i find the mortar halftrack more damaging, and how much does that cost?

Panzerwerfer is fine because of it's low scatter, it actually hits stuff. The Katyusha however never ever hits anything. Even when perfectly aimed against blobs, you have to get so lucky to actually kill stuff.

You can drive closer to decrease the scatter though.

I don't find the werfer satisfactory right now. Its scatter is not low enough for it to be effective at max range (where it needs to fire). For some reason it also has an extremely long cool down which makes it very ineffective against weapon teams.

It was too good before the patch with vet. It is utterly worthless now.

Agreed Kat right now is borderline useless. I hate when it misses blobs because of its scatter.

The nebel desperately needs fixing to counter the ridiculous soviet T2 spam meta that is so common atm would also help with snipers.

Every Game T2 spam ->ISU get ele to counter and they send waves of zis guns which keep it at bay allowing ISU to cover VP.

German T4 is literally not worth building atm

What about lowering the health on crew members by 20%? That's increase the kill radius from 1 to 1.8, it also make Maxim spam less appealing...

I don't find the werfer satisfactory right now. Its scatter is not low enough for it to be effective at max range (where it needs to fire). For some reason it also has an extremely long cool down which makes it very ineffective against weapon teams.

It was too good before the patch with vet. It is utterly worthless now.

Agreed Kat right now is borderline useless. I hate when it misses blobs because of its scatter.

Agree 100%..

I had a game recently on Lagres winter where soviet player built 4 zis gun, 3 maxim, 2 morter plus cons and IS2 and basically camped the middle vp. I had 2 thirds of the map most of the game but it didn't matter because i couldn't cause enough damage to push him off. I built 3 werfers, the first at around 20 and proceeded to bombard away for the next 40 mins using scout plane every time so i was assured of max casualties. In the end i won, but of the 300 kills i got, only 60 were acquired by the werfer which i find completely unacceptable. My opponent was massing his troops in relatively small area for the majority of the game so indirect fire should annihilate him.

I have had a few other games with similar results, ie using werfer to try and dislodge campy soviet weapon team spam and it is simply a waste of time, fuel and tech. I guess MHT incendary barrage is probably the way to go...

Did someone consider that the reason of such nerfs may be the fact that in the add-on will be more powerfull weapons? Maybe wurframen will be much better than the actual Werfer.

Did someone consider that the reason of such nerfs may be the fact that in the add-on will be more powerfull weapons? Maybe wurframen will be much better than the actual Werfer.

It would be silly to do it that way. The overall nerf to all arty means the only way to punish camping is with Offmaps. I dont like this. Arty needs a cost decrease by a TON. Kat and werfer need a pretty big buff.

Punish people trying to wait for super heavies behind walls of support teams.

on map arty needs a slight range decrease with a huge durability increase. they need to stop getting 1 shotted by recon and bombing runs. on this note, the pak43 too. apart from that, their pricing is fine.

It would be silly to do it that way. The overall nerf to all arty means the only way to punish camping is with Offmaps. I dont like this. Arty needs a cost decrease by a TON. Kat and werfer need a pretty big buff.

Punish people trying to wait for super heavies behind walls of support teams.

I find off maps stupid and cheap. On map artillery and rocket artillery need massive buffs.