Thoughts on the Stale 2v2 Meta (ISU v Ele)

ccar is the bren in bren...without axis early counter, "Dude, where's my bike ?"

2 sov snipers : which is totally ridiculous...a good player will never lose them (hmm, *scratch scratch* axis have 4 men units, so, i build 2 snipers or more...)

the 30 ammo sov mine, like ISU is able to wipe one squad, it also works great versus tanks (this is called the swissknife mine), "i sent my grenadiers somewhere..." Is 30 ammo the cost of a panzerfaust shot that is not able to destroy a ccar ?!?

I dont talk about unit pathing...tanks areblocked by the grass or points (ammo, fuel, victory....), i don't talk about the "auto changing selected target", well, i could have destroyed your tank, but unfortunately, my tank decided to fire on the engie...

the problem with manpower : in vcoh : no map control-no army, the game is actually rewarding campy-style and pak blobing (i seen this, i swear...), No map-control, No-chocolate !


ISU is really annoying wiping everything but it's just a kind of detail....Eli is pretty fine, it's just an anti-tank...

Those are all weakness in the game design, that reduce the value of unique game mechanics like cover and flanking. Coh was especially popular because of those things and now they play a very small role in the game. Now the game is dominated by sc, ac, snipers, mines, elephant, isu, tiger, monkeys, bullshit, .... etc

ccar is the bren in bren...without axis early counter, "Dude, where's my bike ?"

2 sov snipers : which is totally ridiculous...a good player will never lose them (hmm, *scratch scratch* axis have 4 men units, so, i build 2 snipers or more...)

the 30 ammo sov mine, like ISU is able to wipe one squad, it also works great versus tanks (this is called the swissknife mine), "i sent my grenadiers somewhere..." Is 30 ammo the cost of a panzerfaust shot that is not able to destroy a ccar ?!?

I dont talk about unit pathing...tanks areblocked by the grass or points (ammo, fuel, victory....), i don't talk about the "auto changing selected target", well, i could have destroyed your tank, but unfortunately, my tank decided to fire on the engie...

the problem with manpower : in vcoh : no map control-no army, the game is actually rewarding campy-style and pak blobing (i seen this, i swear...), No map-control, No-chocolate !


ISU is really annoying wiping everything but it's just a kind of detail....Eli is pretty fine, it's just an anti-tank...

not that hard to understand

not that hard to understand

He is not having a problem understanding it.

He uses a subtle method to say "what a load of bullshit".

Exactly, and also, a bit hard to understand.

ccar is the bren in bren...without axis early counter, "Dude, where's my bike ?"

nuff said.

Jaeger Armor Doctrine is a free commander. In fact, I think it's one of the ones you have straight off the bat.
I can't remember (and don't feel like looking up) if Shock Motor Heavy and/or Mechanized Support are premium items.
Good points.

Shock Motor - Free
Mech Support - Premium
Jaeger Armour - Free
Fortified Armour - Premium

He is not having a problem understanding it.

He uses a subtle method to say "what a load of bullshit".

Ok, I thought using pictures was a subtle way of saying "I cant read and write".

Sorry for going offtopic.

Yesterday I played against a Tiger Ace and 2 ELE on the field.
That makes me want to stop playing, that's just so sad.

However, we only did that to counter the double ISUs you guys fielded =P
Thats something we get forced into a lot of matches. =/

And thats why I agree with the OP, but:

I personally dont feel that the Elefant is that much of a problem.
I havent seen a lot of Elefants fielded before this patch (BUT I havent really focused on 2v2s before this patch either...) and barely fielded them myself.

If the ISU situation gets fixed I think we will also see less Elefants on the field. If the Elefants continue to dominate team matches then they should be changed as well.

But maybe Relic is currently waiting for The Western Front armies, to see how the meta will change with the new factions... :/

As I said:

Soviet fields ISU. You dont have Elefant? say gg wp
German fields Elefant. No problem, dont go T4/ISU.

As I said:

Soviet fields ISU. You dont have Elefant? say gg wp
German fields Elefant. No problem, dont go T4/ISU.

Saying something twice doesn't make it valid.

Soviet T4 is the most certain way to lose the game when opponent goes Elephant. (it's like trying to fight SU85s with Stugs )

Elephant was just as big a problem before this patch because it had no counters whatsoever. The only reason it seems like a bigger issue now is that ISU is better so Elephant is more necessary.

Prior to this patch maps like Rails and Metal and Minsk were unlosable as German if you had an Elephant on the field in 2v2.

Yes it is valid, and is a fact.

However, we only did that to counter the double ISUs you guys fielded =P
Thats something we get forced into a lot of matches. =/

And thats why I agree with the OP, but:

I personally dont feel that the Elefant is that much of a problem.
I havent seen a lot of Elefants fielded before this patch (BUT I havent really focused on 2v2s before this patch either...) and barely fielded them myself.

If the ISU situation gets fixed I think we will also see less Elefants on the field. If the Elefants continue to dominate team matches then they should be changed as well.

But maybe Relic is currently waiting for The Western Front armies, to see how the meta will change with the new factions... :/

Lol i find that really funny that kreatiir is complaining about quitting do to over powered units while abusing overpowered units. I do the same thing, I only call in an ISU if an elephant comes in.

The ISU is just a case of over performing which can be toned down and fixed, the Elefant however is a cause of the absolutely broken faction design.

The problem is with the stale meta is that there is no counter to Elefants. Not to say they are unbeatable, but rather no counter. For some absolutely absurd reason Soviets don't have an infantry-based AT solution, and Zis AT guns are just slow and don't penetrate so the only way to kill the tank destroyer is with vehicles. Except there aren't even any good flanking vehicles, only the T-34. The rest are Commander specific. If the Elefants was a Soviet unit, it would be absolutely no problems because Germans have Shreks, P4's and Panthers.

They can bandaid the problem but really so many issues are being caused by the huge gaping wholes in the counter system. Soviets need Infantry based AT on the base faction. Give Penals a Bazooka upgrade after unlocking Tier 3 or 4. Or Give the Bazooka upgrade to Guards and replace them on Tier1 instead of Penals. Making then Penals better to compensate for being commander specific. Or perhaps make it so the Guard Commander unlocks instead gives the option for Guards to upgrade to DP's, where normally if say Guards were on T1 there they can't get DP's. There's just absolutely no good reason to give Soviets no infantry AT, it also causes problems with Panthers and Tigers. Especially this stale Elefant ISU situation we have here.

I always liked how soviets lacked infantry based AT as I found the asymmetry interesting, but giving some proper infantry AT upgrades to soviets might be the best solution to the elephant issue.

I always liked how soviets lacked infantry based AT as I found the asymmetry interesting, but giving some proper infantry AT upgrades to soviets might be the best solution to the elephant issue.

The problem with that is that it would throw the balance overall up in the air again since all German tanks are designed with poor Soviet infantry AT in mind.

The idea I like most so far is range nerf + hull down requirement, kind of like the KV2: slow to fire and move and short range while mobile, huge range and fast RoF when hulled down. (KV2 also can't see anything when in this mode and needs other units to spot).

Yea that's an even better one, I wonder if they have coded the tanks in such a way that they can change it

I only call in an ISU if an elephant comes in.

lol, your the perfect enemy to battle with

i feel if the is-2 wasn't a waste of everyones time and resources a lot could be improved.

obviously, non-bad paks would go a long way aswell.

i feel if the is-2 wasn't a waste of everyones time and resources a lot could be improved.

obviously, non-bad paks would go a long way aswell.

Well i agree its still another call in to fight a call in. Soviet stock units just don't really have any decent viable way to attack an elephant. Even if you do get close most the shots you actually get to fire bounce off.

Bring pryprjet winter n summer back to the 2v2 automatch pool11!!1! Kappa