Honest opinions about Balance - Soviet adv

Scatter basically says that if it misses it will say how far it misses right? so how is scatter not affected by tank vs tank battle?

Because Target Size and accuracy are the only values calculated.

Chance for a "static" P4 to hit a T-34 at 40 range (max) is 55%, chance for a "static" P4 to hit a T-34 at 0 range is 110%.

Not to mention the hitbox of the T-34 is 22 times larger than an infantry hitbox, the scatter doesn't matter.

The scenario you are describing sounds like you were moving your P4 too much which causes the close range accuracy to drop to 55%.

Scatter basically says that if it misses it will say how far it misses right? so how is scatter not affected by tank vs tank battle?

Simply, by target size.

When firing at infantry, its all about scatter. When tanks fight each other its pretty similar to infantry combat, except missed shots have a chance to hit and penetrate sometimes.

cause if you miss the tank it does not matter by how much you miss

or whatever katitof said

Chance for a "static" P4 to hit a T-34 at 40 range (max) is 55%, chance for a "static" P4 to hit a T-34 at 0 range is 110%.

Not to mention the hitbox of the T-34 is 22 times larger than an infantry hitbox, the scatter doesn't matter.

The scenario you are describing sounds like you were moving your P4 too much which causes the close range accuracy to drop to 55%.

Ok that would explain the first 2 shots and simple bad luck. but the third one was point blank range with the p4 sitting still the attack was on the rear armor.

I will keep see if i can replicate this.

Here's a video of PQumsieh explaining how scatter works. It's from almost a year ago, but I believe the mechanics still hold.

[twitch=pqumsieh]archive_id=438257807[/twitch]

Because Target Size and accuracy are the only values calculated.

For a hit.
But scatter effects whether a miss will still collide with the model.

Furthermore, against infantry, its actually more about AoE, than scatter.

	p4	34/76
armor-front	180	150
armor-rear	90	75
dmg	160	160
reload	5.3-5.7	6.2-6.8
penetration	110	100

i'll regret taking the time looking it up and putting it in a table

you guys don't want an objective discussion, you just want to vent frustration over losing a game.
you're what 10 years old?
I got a spoiler for you: stop blaming everything and everyone else and make the best of what you have

And isnt the Pen difference even bigger at range ?

And isnt the Pen difference even bigger at range ?

Its 120 penetration close range for both, but at far range T34 got 80 and P4 got 100.

Its also 180 vs 150 armor as well, which does make T34 look like a pea shooter.
By looking at tanks stats, you can see why T34 is and needs to be better in AT. It literally got no chance in head on tank battles and even StuG will blow it up.

Pen 120 110 100 P4

Pen 120 100 80 T34/76

So at Max Range the T34/76 is like a PTRS where the P4 keeps decent Pen. Best to use the T34 up close. His stats are old me thinks.

It literally got no chance in head on tank battles.

Literally false.

and even StuG will blow it up.

Sort of the Stugs job, fyi.

Literally false.

Do you want to compare time to kill for P4 and T34 against each other, or denial is your thing?

Because it wins once in a blue moon doesn't make it more equal head on at far range.

Do you want to compare time to kill for P4 and T34 against each other, or denial is your thing?

Because it wins once in a blue moon doesn't make it more equal head on at far range.

I still the t-34 winning head on from the p4. so the difference is not as great as make it out to be.

@IpKaiFung FriedRise

Thx for the scatter lesson.

I still the t-34 winning head on from the p4. so the difference is not as great as make it out to be.

@IpKaiFung FriedRise

Thx for the scatter lesson.

66% - 55% - 44% vs 80% - 73% - 66%
ROF Average 6.5 vs Average 5.5

66% - 55% - 44% vs 80% - 73% - 66%
ROF Average 6.5 vs Average 5.5

Better then zero it previously had. thing is t-34 can win the p4 scatter is still far to high

66% - 55% - 44% vs 80% - 73% - 66%
ROF Average 6.5 vs Average 5.5

Better then zero it previously had. thing is t-34 can win the p4 scatter is still far to high

Better then zero it previously had. thing is t-34 can win the p4 scatter is still far to high

"Not to mention the hitbox of the T-34 is 22 times larger than an infantry hitbox, the scatter doesn't matter. " ipkaifung

Actually it does matter. Most tanks have a relatively short scatter distance. "Missed" shots will often still hit the enemy tank due to that. Since the Panzer IV has such a large scatter distance, it is actually the least likely to hit in its class.

Yep. Misses can still scatter into a hit. Especially on vehicles where the shot generally cannot "overshoot" to the axis on the side opposite to the firer, so the scatter only misses on 3 axis as opposed to 4 on infantry.

Incidentally this is part of what makes Attack Ground useful for blind shots on vehicles.

Not sure how prominently AoE figures into that, as I dont know how much penetration AoE carries. I think the penetration value drops off very steeply within the first few feet of the AoE, and alsomat a different rate on different mainguns. Coh2 stats are so bloody complicated...

I think speed of the target also indirectly affects the relevance of scatter, in that against a moving target, the missed shots will scatter into the area where the target was, rather than leading along its trajectory to where it currently is when the shot lands.
(Which means moving directly away is the safest method to cause missed scatters, because the 4th axis comes intomplay again more prominently)

Or Im entirely wrong about everything. I am merely an apprentice Wizard.
Are there any Grandmaster Statomancers left in these lands?

Maybe Coh2.org could institute some staff positions/titles for a small Coven of Statologists we can summon to our threads in times of need, to illuminate these obscure mysteries for us?

Keep the P4 still, that will keep accuracy high and it's scatter low. You do not need to flank a T-34/76 with a P4 since the P4 has better penetration, better frontal armour and a faster rate of fire. The impetus for flanking and getting close is on the T-34 since it has bad penetration at long range and a worse rate of fire.

I see loads of German players needlessly engage T-34s up close with P4s when they would just be better off holding ground and shooting from a far. Where a stationary P4 will have a 55% chance to hit the T-34 and then a 66% chance to penetrate at max distance where as the T-34 will also have a 55% chance to hit the chance to penetrate is only 44%