Guards PTRS-41 AT Rifle

Something that I've always found very crippling to the Guards unit is its long, long aim time.

Let me outline two scenarios that really bothered me:
1) A Guards squad is in a field defending a sniper from a Scout Car 221. 221 charges the guards after the sniper. The 221 drives through the squad causing them to dive out of the way and reset their aim time. The 221 drives straight through the squad and kills the sniper without taking a single PTRS round. The Scout Car keeps driving and escapes without taking a single hit.

2) Two pumas are retreating after a tank battle with about 5-10% health each. A guards squad cuts them off but the first puma runs through the squad and presumably resets their aim time. The second puma dies to one PTRS shot at max range just barely hitting it in time.

I think the usability of this Guards against light vehicles could and should be significantly improved. It's a tough call I suppose because Guards have been receiving buffs for a handful of patches now but I really feel like their light AT role is hampered by this. The unreliability of the PTRS rifle has caused them to fail to fire a single time during a full Button Vehicle. I've seen this multiple times. As well as the machine gun guys buttoning a vehicle while the PTRS guys shot at infantry. I kid you not!

I wish I understood what the "aiming" stats mean. Using CoH2 Stats for the PTRS we can see that the "ready aim" is 2.0. If this is their initial aim time then I think it is too high.

I would suggest that the Guards Rifle Ready Aim Min and Max be reduced to 1.25. This is longer than their firing rate while being less crippling.

For comparison's sake the Panzerschrek's ready aim time is 0.25 seconds. Those things snap off shots in an instant. I value the differences between the two sides though and would never want to see a PTRS fire that fast.

Just to be clear I think that the PTRS, once it starts firing, does alright. It has a "Fire Aim Time" of 0.5-1.0 seconds. It is that initial aim time that is a cardinal sin against their role as a light vehicle defense. They will probably never be light vehicle hunters barring an M3A1 or M5 halftrack mount.

You have no idea how annoying that can be when you try to make guards attack that 222, but first they dance like retarded chickens and then think how to point the rifle correct way. By that time AC is far away.

Compared to shreck instant aim and fire.... yea.
And PTRS do not even have the range advantage anymore which kind of explained the aim time.

Indeed. My primary way of getting anything out of the PTRS is to load them up in an M3A1 and let them operate out of it. They can aim and move in such a vehicle so you get a decent light vehicle hunter. Their old range was definitely close to overpowered with the M3A1.

The DP-28 is still more expensive than it has been historically so buttoning is harder to do than usual. It's trouble for Guards at their AT role.

You have no idea how annoying that can be when you try to make guards attack that 222, but first they dance like retarded chickens and then think how to point the rifle correct way. By that time AC is far away.

Compared to shreck instant aim and fire.... yea.
And PTRS do not even have the range advantage anymore which kind of explained the aim time.

+1
Against a good player, it is impossbile to kill the AC with cons and guards.

+1

I was just going to make a thread about the same thing. Before their range was the number one way they could get shots off with the long aim time. Now it's hard to even get a single shot off before the vehicle has left, and with the new tank lethality by the time they even fire the first salvo on a tank half the squad is gone and you have to retreat and that's if the tank comes into the guards range, not if they are chasing the tank, I know how to use Guards.

There is no reason for the aim time to be so low on a weapon that does so little damage, especially now that it doesn't have anything else going for it.

Notice that Guards work much better when garrisoned or in cover where they can't be pushed around.

I agree it's very frustrating to have a car scatter them but that was a HUGE part of the vCOH mechanics to disrupt units with vehicles so it makes sense for them to have to re-aim.

Indeed. My primary way of getting anything out of the PTRS is to load them up in an M3A1 and let them operate out of it. They can aim and move in such a vehicle so you get a decent light vehicle hunter. Their old range was definitely close to overpowered with the M3A1.

The DP-28 is still more expensive than it has been historically so buttoning is harder to do than usual. It's trouble for Guards at their AT role.

+1

This is currently the way I've been using guards... put them in an M3! Put everything in an M3 FTW!

Guards have to be stationary to do any kind of damage with their PTRS or DP-28, so putting them in a scout car ensures that they're always shooting and not dance around / constantly resetting their ready aim time. You can't choose your target but it's a small price to pay considering you're more nimble and can actually chase down scout cars.

On a somewhat related note, is there some sort of prioritization to what they shoot at first? Is it always vehicles before infantry? Or maybe whatever is closest?

The best part about the guards PTRS-41 rifles is when you lose them and you are stuck with an AT-squad that can't harm vehicles.

Notice that Guards work much better when garrisoned or in cover where they can't be pushed around.

I agree it's very frustrating to have a car scatter them but that was a HUGE part of the vCOH mechanics to disrupt units with vehicles so it makes sense for them to have to re-aim.

You'd have been a fool to try and push around a Recoiless Rifle Airborne squad in CoH1 with a Puma or a Motorcyle though. The differences are too huge. I can't really think of a CoH1 weapon, at least hand held Anti-Tank, that had multi-second aim time. Even the PIAT was 0.5 seconds.

I'm not against aim times and exploiting their weaknesses.

I believe that this aim time is just too high.

Yup guards are in need of some work. Not too good at anti vehicle and not to good at anti infantry. Very expensive and I find that having more than one squad is a waste. Which sucks because I would like to use more guards and less conscripts but they cost way too much manpower and after you lose one or two entities they are combat in effective.

Guards need to come out with svt and then upgrade with ptrs or lmg. Right now they do not represent their unit description very well

Notice that Guards work much better when garrisoned or in cover where they can't be pushed around.

I agree it's very frustrating to have a car scatter them but that was a HUGE part of the vCOH mechanics to disrupt units with vehicles so it makes sense for them to have to re-aim.

We shouldn't confuse things that became part of the vCOH mechanics with things that should actually be part of the game design. Just because it was part of vCoH doesn't make it a good idea.

"pushing" was probably never part of the game design and just an outcome of the mechanics. I doubt a WWII-type game developer sat excitedly and said "we'll have rifles taht can be upgraded with grenades and weapons, medium tanks, super tanks, etc. and by the way, one of the cool features is taht the little jeeps and unarmed kettens will drive right up to enemy troops and push them around so they can't set up!"

plus 1

Guards not only have way more aim time, less damage and less penetration than Shreks, they are also Commander specific. Guards are just pathetic at AT, and it causes so many problems for the balance and the dynamic of the game where Soviets have no infantry based AT. They really should give Lend Lease Bazookas to Penals to give soviets some mobile infantry based AT. As well as fixing the aim time on Guards.

A sustained source of infantry AT damage for the Soviets is pretty much their AT gun.

I do enjoy asymmetric design in Company of Heroes for the most part. I don't really want to see a PTRS that rivals the Panzerschrek. I haven't done the math but I would guess that from a purely DPS point of view the PTRS actually performs admirably to the schreck.

Yeah I have an issue with this as well as the massive amount of butter they are required to rub all over their fingers.

A sustained source of infantry AT damage for the Soviets is pretty much their AT gun.

I do enjoy asymmetric design in Company of Heroes for the most part. I don't really want to see a PTRS that rivals the Panzerschrek. I haven't done the math but I would guess that from a purely DPS point of view the PTRS actually performs admirably to the schreck.

The thing is, with speed changes and range cut on PTRS its not even effective weapon against light armor.

Unless guards are in M3, you will kill no vehicle with them, there is a chance vehicle will escape even if you button it before the guards stop dancing around and take their time in aiming the button will actually end and vehicle will run away.

Range should be restored or aim time matched to shrecks because right not PTRS isn't even effective in its intended role.

Comapring them to PGrens, they are very weak AT inf. In fact I use them only for ability that blinds vehicles. DMG they made is negligible when attack Tiger (opposite PGrens with schrecks, they can inflict great damage even to IS2 or ISU).
So as I sad, I just use them to blind tanks.

1. Is a heavy Anti Tank Rifle, not a bazooka...

2. This rifle is huge, want it to be like a mp5?

3. That weapon is better used in cover, more static..

1. Is a heavy Anti Tank Rifle, not a bazooka...

2. This rifle is huge, want it to be like a mp5?

3. That weapon is better used in cover, more static..

My suggestion is to reduce it from taking eight times as long as a Panzerschrek to fire it's first shot to five times as long as a Panzerschrek. I doubt that the Panzerschrek is as light as you're suggesting.

I want the weapon to feel better to use. I want to be able to threaten enemy light vehicles consistently with Guards. It will still have the longest Aim Ready time as far as I am aware.

Now if cover actually let me fire the PTRS when I see a vehicle then I would be fine with that. However, it does not and I do not need a static AT option from my guards. A completely static AT weapon already exists: The ZiS AT gun.

I am 90% sure that it currently takes longer for a PTRS to start opening up on a target than a Maxim that is not even set up. It's possible that a ZiS AT Gun can be plopped down and fired faster. The PTRS is goddamn slow.