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I understand why CIS countrys hate single player campaign

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21 Apr 2014, 05:40 AM
#21
avatar of kazak

Posts: 13

The campagin story has been told so many times by different us and europe sourses (angry comisars, poor brave solders), that CIS people get angry every time they see it. Because this story, is the only thing us and europe people know about russian man in ww2. Its a pitty. And relic wasnt orginal in making the campagin, relic were too lasy to make original story
21 Apr 2014, 06:56 AM
#22
avatar of rejfor

Posts: 101



"Estimates of total deaths of German civilians have ranged from 500,000 to a maximum of 3.0 million persons. The death toll also includes the forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union."

The Soviets were horrific in their treatment of Germans after the war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II#Casualties This includes the complete genocide of all Germans who lived in East Prussia, now called Kaliningrad...

Hitler and the Nazis had some "positive facts" as well, but they pale in comparison to the atrocities they committed. The Soviet Union and Stalin actually get it pretty easy compared to the Nazis, especially considering that Stalin worked with Hitler to divide up eastern Europe and waged war alongside Hitler until Operation Barbarossa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland


Ehm... Okay, I'll just replace "German" with "Soviet" :3

Estimates of total deaths of Soviet civilians have ranged from 13.7 million to a maximum of 22.1 million persons. The death toll also includes the forced labor of Soviets (2.1 million) in Germany."

The Germans were horrific in their treatment of Soviets during the war. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht This includes the complete genocide of all Jews who lived in occupied territories of USSR...

Note number of casualties and compare to Germans. I don't know why all of you don't like to remember about HUGE Soviet losses but whine about German losses. Cold War, huh?

Also Soviets couldn't genocide anyone just because of their ideology. It's complete bullshit. They killed for anything but not for race or nationality.

About COH2 campaign. There was a great German campaign in COH - OF without any rubbish about evil Nazis. And we get COH2 campaign after that. Shame on Relic script writers.
21 Apr 2014, 06:58 AM
#23
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

War isn't pretty. Dictatorships aren't pretty. Could they have focused on the individual heroism of the soldiers in the war? Sure. But then they would have been accused of being Soviet fanboys instead of Nazi sympathizers.

The reality is that Stalin, Hitler, FDR, and Churchill were all murdering fuckheads who ordered the deaths of millions in a giant fucked ego-fest that raped a generation, all to satisfy their own sense of entitlement and ambition.


it was a total war..... yea im pretty sure FDR on his deathbed said 'how many more of those nazis and japs did we kill today'. and when Churchill saw German bombers above london, he thought 'Hitler wants to emasculate me... oh my ego'
21 Apr 2014, 09:33 AM
#24
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I actually wonder how much Russians are taught about WW2, or how much misinformation they receive.

The last time I spoke to one, he tried to tell me that the Allies didn't fight until 1944 to bleed out the USSR, or that we started the Cold War. Another kept calling America, NATO, and the European Union words like "enemy" and "empire" and implying that they're the same as Nazi Germany.
21 Apr 2014, 09:36 AM
#25
avatar of AngryCustomer

Posts: 40

that's how singplayer should look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IwmYAdgU18 instead of watching enemy of the gates look this vid :D
21 Apr 2014, 09:42 AM
#26
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

that's how singplayer should look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IwmYAdgU18 instead of watching enemy of the gates look this vid :D


Excellent song btw. Sabaton is definitely one of my all time favourite bands.


Anyway, I do think the campaign overdid it in some ways, but I also think the outcry from bloc residents is also over-dramatic.
21 Apr 2014, 10:07 AM
#27
avatar of Last of the Catachan

Posts: 24



The truth is that 'truth' is always lost through pink perspective glasses over the eyes of the beholder.

'Allies at the Nuremberg and Tokyo Trials never criminalised aerial bombardment of non-military targets and Axis leaders who ordered a similar type of practice were not prosecuted'

As many historians will tell you, the only reason is: because Roosevelt, Truman, Churchill, Eisenhower, and entire Allies high command would have to hang themselves together with Nazis, for deliberately ordering close to a million civilians to be deliberately killed/burned alive and countless more homeless and injured.

As you said, the truth is Soviets were not better than the Nazis. It only means you have to look from slightly different perspective.

That being said, Relic chose to focus on Cold war propaganda-ish story line, instead of plenty of heroic stories they could have.

Like in VCOH, they could have easily focused the story on order to burn alive 100,000 people in Dressden and Hamburg and allies numerous desertions trials and sentences, killing close to 100,000 French civilians in air raids, etc.
Evil face of Churchill and order to target civilians, and there you go. You have yourself British Stalin and not so noble and heroic Allied WW2 campaign



What a load of fking drivel

Always something wrong with this argument about the allies bombing Germany as a war crime.

1)Germany bombed Britain also using fire bombs , then later on using v1& v2 which were actually called terror weapons.

2)By late 1942 definitely by 1943 most german generals believed the war to be lost, so if they had surrendered no bombing of Germany in late war no troops landing in Europe , a lot of german cities not destroyed, a lot less casualties of the german population.

3)Hitler decided to continue with the war but why didn't one of those spineless army officers who are always talking about honour put a bullet in his head, but here's the catch most german generals blame hitler for losing the war and that they could do better if in command so the cycle would continue probably even more death and destruction and if the war had dragged on longer then 1945 therisk of atomics being used.

4)You reap what you so
21 Apr 2014, 10:17 AM
#28
avatar of rezzzzen

Posts: 76

21 Apr 2014, 10:41 AM
#29
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

1)Germany bombed Britain also using fire bombs , then later on using v1& v2 which were actually called terror weapons.

They were called "Terror Weapons" because while they were very advanced and scary, they weren't actually as effective as you think. In particular they had accuracy problems, they could only hit a target if it was literally the size of a large city, and even then they missed a few times. Luckily for Germany, that's exactly what they aimed at, with the exception of a few blowing up a small part of the English countryside.


3)Hitler decided to continue with the war but why didn't one of those spineless army officers who are always talking about honour put a bullet in his head, but here's the catch most german generals blame hitler for losing the war and that they could do better if in command so the cycle would continue probably even more death and destruction and if the war had dragged on longer then 1945 therisk of atomics being used.

There were several attempts to overthrow or kill Hitler during WW2. Many of these attempts were General Officers and members of German High Command. Everything from arresting him to suicide bombings were planned, but Hitler was a fucking accidental Houdini and somehow managed to escape alive every. single. time... Many of these he didn't even know he evaded, they simply failed because he was scheduled to show up at Place A (where he would be assassinated), only to reschedule, cancel, or go to Place B instead.
21 Apr 2014, 10:52 AM
#30
avatar of herr anfsim

Posts: 247

Politics aside, I found the campaign (the part I played at least) to be extremely demotivating. I mean, youre repeatedly told that what you do sucks and that its all for nothing during cutscenes by some whiny guy thats supposed to be you. That dosent exactly build my fighting spirit.
21 Apr 2014, 11:39 AM
#31
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 618


1)Germany bombed Britain also using fire bombs , then later on using v1& v2 which were actually called terror weapons.


How does this justify the Allies' bombing of civilians? Just because your enemy does it doesn't suddenly make it right for you to do it as well.
21 Apr 2014, 11:56 AM
#32
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419



How does this justify the Allies' bombing of civilians? Just because your enemy does it doesn't suddenly make it right for you to do it as well.
Because those civilians and those cities like it not, supported the war effort. Not only that intermingled in the cities are military personnel and weaponry. Maybe it isn't kosher, but lining people up in front of ditches and shooting them is a step beyond the line of being casualties of war and genocidal maniacs. Starving people to death in the millions, because you invade and annex them, make them slave laborers on their own lands and take the food they grow and send it to Moscow. There is an obvious point at which you cant not deny the true evilness of ones action.
21 Apr 2014, 12:11 PM
#33
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

The campaign was bad, boring, and not immerssive. It did not feel like you mattered to the story, and as far as I could tell my job was to watch a bunch of really corny cut scenes loosely based on reality.

It would have been so much better to take command of different companies all along the front and after completing a mission flip back and show you a cut scene with a tactical map. Then they could discuss the history of what was going on without delving into war crimes.

Yes war crimes happened on both sides, and were especially grievous in the Soviet and German states, but I don't want to play a game focusing on them.
21 Apr 2014, 12:16 PM
#34
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

The campaign was bad, boring, and not immerssive. It did not feel like you mattered to the story, and as far as I could tell my job was to watch a bunch of really corny cut scenes loosely based on reality.

It would have been so much better to take command of different companies all along the front and after completing a mission flip back and show you a cut scene with a tactical map. Then they could discuss the history of what was going on without delving into war crimes.

Yes war crimes happened on both sides, and were especially grievous in the Soviet and German states, but I don't want to play a game focusing on them.



Agree 100%
21 Apr 2014, 12:27 PM
#35
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

well, i'm not denying soviet warcrimes, but all i can say, i understand why the campaign angers some people.
It shows soviet warcrimes and doesn't show any german war crimes. That's the problem.

Oh, and the ending was simply an insult to everyone who fought in WW2. You know where he says
"millions died to raise that flag.. all those graves, for a photograph". Whoever wrote this is horrible.
21 Apr 2014, 12:30 PM
#36
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 618

Because those civilians and those cities like it not, supported the war effort. Not only that intermingled in the cities are military personnel and weaponry. Maybe it isn't kosher, but lining people up in front of ditches and shooting them is a step beyond the line of being casualties of war and genocidal maniacs. Starving people to death in the millions, because you invade and annex them, make them slave laborers on their own lands and take the food they grow and send it to Moscow. There is an obvious point at which you cant not deny the true evilness of ones action.


Yea sure, but the argument of "The Germans bombed the Allies so the Allies can bomb innocent civilians too" is dumb.
21 Apr 2014, 12:52 PM
#37
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Yea sure, but the argument of "The Germans bombed the Allies so the Allies can bomb innocent civilians too" is dumb.

Welcome to Total War, everyone is part of the war effort, everyone is a target.
21 Apr 2014, 13:33 PM
#38
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 618


Welcome to Total War, everyone is part of the war effort, everyone is a target.


Yup.
21 Apr 2014, 13:35 PM
#39
avatar of Neffarion

Posts: 461 | Subs: 1



Yea sure, but the argument of "The Germans bombed the Allies so the Allies can bomb innocent civilians too" is dumb.

It is not dumb it is simply what happen.
21 Apr 2014, 13:36 PM
#40
avatar of rezzzzen

Posts: 76

War, war never changes.
The Romans waged war to gather slaves and wealth...
Spain build an empire from its lust for gold and territory...
Hitler shaped a battered germany into an economic superpower...
but war
war never changes...
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