Rifle Grenades

Great idea. Make it as useless as P4s/T34s when they fire on the move. I.e. almost no damage barring pure luck.

Not to that high of a degree, perhaps make the scatter definition on rifle grenades in particular the average spread of a squad, so at worst it will hit the outside edge of the squad. For other grenades the scatter would be less significant, and for molotovs negligible, but noticeable.

Well me personally I dont think there are enough conditions that render units totally worthless quite like the moving accuracy penalty on armor MVGame.

Also when balancing the rifle nade please keep in mind that it can be shot over hedges and buildings. So if you only nerf while suppressed it is still to easy to counter squads and mg teams with it.

Cut some range and make it an upgrade with an icon over the squad so that the soviet player knows the squad is a rifle nade squad and can react.

Hmmm i don´t see you playing as soviets, at least on 1v1. "What's the matter, no true guts for 1v1"?
And if you are learning and adapting, you should have a similar rank on 2v2 on both factions. Not a 12000 rank difference.
I´m just saying that you dont do what you preach.

Sorry, you didn't look carefully. First, I have less games as a soviet than as a german (I allways recognized this. What I didn't agree to, is people who claims I don't know anything about playing soviets). In 2v2 I played - let's say - around 15-16 games after the new patch. So it's normal not to climb to high on ladders.

Yes, it's true that I have just 4 1v1 with soviets, but that was because before 25 march seemed to easy. I won 2 games with no difficulties. Now, after the new patch I won 1 and I lost 1. So that motivates me to go further.

So see? has nothing to do with the guts. You can check my german 1v1 numbers and see there that I am not dodging 1v1 as other people do, on the contrary, 90% of my 1v1 games with germans were before 25 march when it was ...let's say... more challanging to play with them.

Conclusion is I don't give a shit on opinions coming from the people who plays on the safe side or who draw their balance opinions from 2v2, 3v3 4v4 games when this type of games represents 90% of their game time.

and make it an upgrade with an icon over the squad so that the soviet player knows the squad is a rifle nade squad and can react.

Yeah maybe the red smoke, like for the stuka bomb, railway arty, etc....

omg c'mon

Sorry, you didn't look carefully. First, I have less games as a soviet than as a german (I allways recognized this. What I didn't agree to, is people who claims I don't know anything about playing soviets). In 2v2 I played - let's say - around 15-16 games after the new patch. So it's normal not to climb to high on ladders.

Yes, it's true that I have just 4 1v1 with soviets, but that was because before 25 march seemed to easy. I won 2 games with no difficulties. Now, after the new patch I won 1 and I lost 1. So that motivates me to go further.

So see? has nothing to do with the guts. You can check my german 1v1 numbers and see there that I am not dodging 1v1 as other people do, on the contrary, 90% of my 1v1 games with germans were before 25 march when it was ...let's say... more challanging to play with them.

Conclusion is I don't give a shit on opinions coming from the people who plays on the safe side or who draw their balance opinions from 2v2, 3v3 4v4 games when this type of games represents 90% of their game time.

-You draw your balance soviet opinions from 2v2 gameplay ("I don't give a shit on opinions coming from the people...who draw their balance opinions from 2v2")
-I remember you said that it was a matter of "adapt n L2P". I don´t see you doing so, so don´t tell other people this little speach.
-So you are telling me that after 2 1v1 games you found the game easy as soviets? You wont found a challenging opponent till the system figures it out your ELO on that faction and mode. Comeback when you got 10+ games and the game figures it out to give you a decent opponent according to your level.
-Before 25 march it wasn´t more "challenging". If anything it was more balanced. Again, i wonder what would had happen if the only balance changes were on the M3, clowncar sniper and the 221/222.

-You draw your balance soviet opinions from 2v2 gameplay ("I don't give a shit on opinions coming from the people...who draw their balance opinions from 2v2")
-I remember you said that it was a matter of "adapt n L2P". I don´t see you doing so, so don´t tell other people this little speach.
-So you are telling me that after 2 1v1 games you found the game easy as soviets? You wont found a challenging opponent till the system figures it out your ELO on that faction and mode. Comeback when you got 10+ games and the game figures it out to give you a decent opponent according to your level.
-Before 25 march it wasn´t more "challenging". If anything it was more balanced. Again, i wonder what would had happen if the only balance changes were on the M3, clowncar sniper and the 221/222.

- There is no such thing as "balance soviet opinion". Balance is balance, doesn't carry the name of any faction, and you can have an idea about balance if you play enough 1v1 with one faction or another. In addition, as you could see, I have my soviet games.
- I am adapting because I lost with soviets after last patch but the latest games are only wins. This is the best proof.
- Agreed, I WILL play more 1v1 with soviets because now I like it. It's not so easy anymore!
- Now that is a soviet fanboy line. Sorry. You can't tell me that walking around like a no-brainer and ppsh-ing everyhing was difficult and needed such a big micro or skill. If you did that with shocks, you also had an immortal squad. I have one friend he didn't play one single game with soviets, and he began to do it before 25 march. He is a family guy, he didn't have so much time to play. He played just Advanced Warfare, with con spam and T34/85 call in. I swear he didn't build one T. Not one. In the first week he had several victories, he lost one time against AG spam. In the second week he defeated level 1800 (german faction). The third week he quit playing with soviets. Can you guess why?

- There is no such thing as "balance soviet opinion". Balance is balance, doesn't carry the name of any faction, and you can have an idea about balance if you play enough 1v1 with one faction or another. In addition, as you could see, I have my soviet games.
- I am adapting because I lost with soviets after last patch but the latest games are only wins. This is the best proof.
- Agreed, I WILL play more 1v1 with soviets because now I like it. It's not so easy anymore!
- Now that is a soviet fanboy line. Sorry. You can't tell me that walking around like a no-brainer and ppsh-ing everyhing was difficult and needed such a big micro or skill. If you did that with shocks, you also had an immortal squad. I have one friend he didn't play one single game with soviets, and he began to do it before 25 march. He is a family guy, he didn't have so much time to play. He played just Advanced Warfare, with con spam and T34/85 call in. I swear he didn't build one T. Not one. In the first week he had several victories, he lost one time against AG spam. In the second week he defeated level 1800 (german faction). The third week he quit playing with soviets. Can you guess why?

-If you play just 1 faction you are only seeing the weakness of your faction and the strenghts of the enemy, not viceversa. It may be "enough" but you don´t have the whole panorama.

-I had never play CoH and i was 500 when the game was release. Give me a cookie?
Shocks: sniper, mg and FHT (4 unit start)
PPSH: PGs before 3CP, FHT to drain muni n mp (while having a pio near), if he goes heavy molotov he wont have munition for every con. LMG/G43.
Advanace Warfare: without teching good luck defending a FHT + MG pression or quick Ostwind/P4.

Again, did your friend surpass the 10-15+ games so the system could match him a decent opponent? Which was his rank as german ?

The only thing i found "broken" it was the clowncar opening on open maps. The window of opportunity to use a quick 222 to just counter it was way too short or you could just stall till G43 and amass grens.

Anyway, the last patch was more balanced (besides that issue) than what we have now. I didnt have problems with either faction on 1v1 neither 2v2. Now i feel like a dumb when i play 2v2 as germans.

So, anyway. Rifle grenades

Options suggested so far to address excessive rifle grenade lethality vs. static weapon teams, particularly Maxims:

1. Reduce Maxim squad cluttering to reduce impact of rifle grenades.
2. Reduce range on rifle grenades for suppressed Grenadiers.
3. Reduce accuracy/increase scatter for rifle grenades fired by suppressed Grenadiers.
4. Increase scatter for all grenades thrown/launched by suppressed units in a distance-to-target related way (the further from the target, the bigger the scatter increase).

So, anyway. Rifle grenades

Options suggested so far to address excessive rifle grenade lethality vs. static weapon teams, particularly Maxims:

1. Reduce Maxim squad cluttering to reduce impact of rifle grenades.
2. Reduce range on rifle grenades for suppressed Grenadiers.
3. Reduce accuracy/increase scatter for rifle grenades fired by suppressed Grenadiers.
4. Increase scatter for all grenades thrown/launched by suppressed units in a distance-to-target related way (the further from the target, the bigger the scatter increase).

1- And mortars
2.3.4- Reduce range on grenades while suppresed. That´s it.

1- And mortars
2.3.4- Reduce range on grenades while suppresed. That´s it.

I think increasing scatter makes more sense than a range decrease, think about it, would you be able to still throw exactly where you're aiming when under mg fire, just throw a bit shorter? (NOT an argument for realism)

I think increasing scatter makes more sense than a range decrease, think about it, would you be able to still throw exactly where you're aiming when under mg fire, just throw a bit shorter? (NOT an argument for realism)

more RNG? no.

Nope. Not happening. Waste your time discussing all you want, relic is not going cripple the long range viability of grenadiers. You want grenadiers to stop rifle nading your maxims, why not start supporting them instead of making threads here.

The main issue OP brings up in this thread becomes moot whenever the maxims are supported by infantry, which leads me to believe that the whole purpose of this thread is to further encourage maxim spam.

Nope. Not happening. Waste your time discussing all you want, relic is not going cripple the long range viability of grenadiers. You want grenadiers to stop rifle nading your maxims, why not start supporting them instead of making threads here.

The main issue OP brings up in this thread becomes moot whenever the maxims are supported by infantry, which leads me to believe that the whole purpose of this thread is to further encourage maxim spam.

Suppressed infantry should not be able to counter the MG suppressing them from long range, it's as simple as that.

The whole purpose of this thread is to discourage the use of Grenadier spam which is so effective not only because Grens are way OP but also because their Rifle Grenades are a get out of jail free card right now.

I play both factions equally and it's just sad how unbalanced this game is right now.

Suppressed infantry should not be able to counter the MG suppressing them from long range, it's as simple as that.

The whole purpose of this thread is to discourage the use of Grenadier spam which is so effective not only because Grens are way OP but also because their Rifle Grenades are a get out of jail free card right now.

I play both factions equally and it's just sad how unbalanced this game is right now.

I guess you won't mind suppressed conscripts not being able to throw molotovs either, then. Good to hear.

I guess you won't mind suppressed conscripts not being able to throw molotovs either, then. Good to hear.

Molotovs can't be thrown from the edge of the MG42s arc. You actually have to rush in to where it hurts, lose 3-4 models and then retreat. And a good player will reposition his MG42 once the conscripts are suppressed right away.

Rifle grenades don't require you to leave cover and expose yourself and can be fired from very far away and don't give the maxim time to reposition. Even if it did reposition, it wouldn't help as the rifle grenade range is almost the same as the maxim's and at Vet2, grens can actually fire it further than the maxim range.

It's getting to that stage of my fanboy detector firing that I'm wondering if you actually play Soviets? (scorecard plx)

I personally dont care if all nades has reduced range/scatter while suppressed. Rnade is particularly out of control. I would argue due to its range its the most useful nade in game. Almost like carrying around a one shot Precision strike Mortar round.

I think increasing scatter makes more sense than a range decrease, think about it, would you be able to still throw exactly where you're aiming when under mg fire, just throw a bit shorter? (NOT an argument for realism)

First of all, less RNG.
Second: i think it´s obvious that i can throw further when i´m standing and have certain "momentum" while running rather when i´m on a prone position and crawling.
Third: i don´t think that standing/crouching to throw a Rnade is a good idea when you are under MG fire.

What if rifle nade uses a similar accuracy/scatter mechanism employed by other projectile weapons such as mortar, SU-76 barrage, artillery, etc? So the farther you are, the larger the scatter circle where your shot might land. That way Maxim suppressing squads at max range won't get wtfpwn'd all the time, but if they get close enough, they can still reliably fight back much like how conscripts can with their Molotov.

2.3.4- Reduce range on grenades while suppresed. That´s it.

If you want to decrease the range, why don't you just straight up remove the rifle grenade and replace it with a Stielhandgranate?