What the .... is up with the germans ?

What was that someone said about tinfoil hats...?

very lovely chat log

Lmao, nice, I will be trying the 120mm mortar out now for sure

1-See if *the guy who says the patch is balanced* has played both factions.

2-He played both?

>Yes: OMG he says this patch is balanced BURN HIM!!!
>No: Search his steamID, watch his only german played games. Laugh at him. Exclude him from comenting on these *balance posts*.

3.Repeat.

4.Congratz.

I don´t know what awesome micro some people here are talking about that you needed pre patch with germans.

Dodging Rnades <<<< Dodging Molotovs/Nades
Before patch they were just cost effective when you knew squads were bunch up together. Since theres no need nowadays for 120muni for FHT, LMG, Rnades are more predominant early game. With lolotovs even if you were hit (unless awesome crits or stupid IA trying to seek cover) you could just move out and be mostly unharmed.

Shocktroops to germans were what PG were to Soviets. PPSH run n gun is the CQC version of the G43 gren spam.

Sniper micro was the same for both (if they fixed the bugs regarding stunning and automatic shooting). German sniper was a mp bleeding while soviet sniper was forcing retreat. Sniper was the main reason you would get T1 (Penals not being worth the price n Scoutcar being the most gimmick thing) and this forced your tech meaning that a German player could easily take advantage of it.

MG vs maxim: i think we know which require more attention.

Tanks: we really need to discuss this ?


If nothing, the prior patch was more balance that what we have here and that was reflected on what i would see on the automatch on 1v1 and 2v2.
I regret not being able to see how the game would had evolved with this 3 things:
-increased health + armor + mp cost n reduce fuel on the AC
-no clowncar sniper
-no clowncar sniper (maybe the sniper change we have now plus a Penal price reduction)

people who only play one faction are fine

people who play one faction and expect to be taken seriously when discussing game balance are jokers

I really should post my post in a new thread, shouldn't I?

SSHeidi, protip--loosten your damn tinfoil hat. That thing is so tight it's making MY head hurt.

I am new to this forum and have signed up in frustration at this new patch. I am no noob, I know infantry move/cover tactics and I know how to use unit abilities and my unit micro management is good but I have to say post patch I think this may well be the most unbalanced this game has been.

For an example I had a late game engagement with two DP-28 equip vet 3 guards in heavy cover taking on 2 vet 3 grens with Lmg's that where not in cover. No nades were used by me or my opponent and my guards got totally wiped out!!! to make it worse I didn't kill a single gren!!! I mean that cant be right can it, I am half temped to send the footage to Relic and ask for an explanation from the balancing team but I can imagine what the response would be.

I am not saying this game was ever properly balanced post patch because I genuinely believe it never was, and thanks to the way they have designed the Russians it never can be, but I think they have seriously missed the mark here with implementing the weapon profiles.

I am new to this forum and have signed up in frustration at this new patch. I am no noob, I know infantry move/cover tactics and I know how to use unit abilities and my unit micro management is good but I have to say post patch I think this may well be the most unbalanced this game has been.

For an example I had a late game engagement with two DP-28 equip vet 3 guards in heavy cover taking on 2 vet 3 grens with Lmg's that where not in cover. No nades were used by me or my opponent and my guards got totally wiped out!!! to make it worse I didn't kill a single gren!!! I mean that cant be right can it, I am half temped to send the footage to Relic and ask for an explanation from the balancing team but I can imagine what the response would be.

I am not saying this game was ever properly balanced post patch because I genuinely believe it never was, and thanks to the way they have designed the Russians it never can be, but I think they have seriously missed the mark here with implementing the weapon profiles.

Totally share the same experiences! The answer from Relic will be: Adapt.

But I don't get why I should destroy my fingers trying in keeping up with 1000 APM just to stay alive! So please Relic, read through these threads here and balance the game again!

A number of valid concerns have been raised, we want to stress the fact that you as the community play a large part in improving the game. If you have a concern, please create a post detailing the issue and provide any supporting evidence to help advance your claim. Replays are always great, if all else fails you can always challenge me to a match to make your point.

Post a vid or the replay. That is definitly an issue.

Post a vid or the replay. That is definitly an issue.

Good point, but watching the streams of i.e. Cataclaw will also show the issues

Thanks for all those comments. Now I am shure i am not alone with this opinion. But i often laught in this thread because there are players left who only say " If you think the germans are op L2P". Rather interesting. Thanks FrikadelleXXL for this management. This ideas of getting partisans to counter an Mg42 are rather interesting but this puts the soviet under pressure because he had to choose a doctrin in the early game, and thats simply rubish. I hope that a new patch will published in a certain time. Who played Coh 1 ??? This is the feeling I want I miss Coh1 but i think we can reach the same result with Coh2 but this will be hard in a community wich only gives the answere L2P. And thanks to you Polizeifunk!! It´s good to hear your opinion

I am new to this forum and have signed up in frustration at this new patch. I am no noob, I know infantry move/cover tactics and I know how to use unit abilities and my unit micro management is good but I have to say post patch I think this may well be the most unbalanced this game has been.

For an example I had a late game engagement with two DP-28 equip vet 3 guards in heavy cover taking on 2 vet 3 grens with Lmg's that where not in cover. No nades were used by me or my opponent and my guards got totally wiped out!!! to make it worse I didn't kill a single gren!!! I mean that cant be right can it, I am half temped to send the footage to Relic and ask for an explanation from the balancing team but I can imagine what the response would be.

I am not saying this game was ever properly balanced post patch because I genuinely believe it never was, and thanks to the way they have designed the Russians it never can be, but I think they have seriously missed the mark here with implementing the weapon profiles.

Post replay. I can only think that the guards tried to dance dance either than shoot in order for that to happen (or you were moving them trying to fit better cover)

Let us explore the facts of this patch.

Grenadiers cost 240 Manpower and will reliably beat Conscripts in all combat situations, regardless of upgrades, by simply sitting in light or heavy cover. Even charging Conscripts is viable if you have two Grenadiers to his one Conscript. If met with a crewed weapon, one need only to launch a rifle grenade on it and continue to flank or advance towards the weapon with minimal deviation from his original route. Late game, Grenadiers can still get away with suiciding through multiple Soviet tanks (and their machine guns) to kill ZiS weapons and the like, and faust most of the Soviet vehicles before having to retreat. Vet retention is very good unless met with something such as an ISU-152.

Conscripts cost 240 Manpower and will beat Pioneers provided that they enter cover first and are at least at medium to long range. Against Grenadiers, they will lose very handedly even if in cover. Charging two Conscripts towards a Grenadier is asking to have one squad wiped and the other damaged to the point of having to retreat. If met with an MG42, the user must use Ura! to exit the VERY wide arc of fire of the MG, or to get close enough to loose a Molotov onto its crew (assuming the Cons become suppressed, they MG user will have ample time to pack up and move). Attempting to charge an MG is asking to get your face removed, and supported crew weapons are even deadlier as Grenadiers out-DPS you at all ranges, and Pioneers will beat you at point blank range. Late game, Soviet infantry is easily chewed up by Axis hull and co-axial weapons; a Panther is capable of being a mobile suppression platform with the top MG mounted. Attempting to charge an Axis tank to loose a magnetic AT grenade is suicide and usually amounts to a dead Conscript squad. Trying to charge past Axis units to kill a PaK also yields dead infantry.

Penal Battalions Companies cost 270 manpower and will beat Grenadiers and Pioneers at close range provided the Grenadiers lack an MG42, and the Pioneers lack a Flammenwerfer. At long ranges, Penal troops will easily be beaten by Grenadiers, even if the latter is not in cover, and the former is. If faced with an MG42, the Penal troops have no option but to halt and hope to kill the crew before becoming suppressed--they have no ability to Ura! out of harms way until reaching Vet2 (a weedy prospect at best). If you do manage to close with a crewed weapon, your only throw-able option is a satchel charge, that, with a 5 second fuse, is of dubious value against a wary opponent. The only boon of the charge is its ability to now demolish a bunker with one go, but this again assumes you were able to make it to the bunker. Late game, lacking any AT capabilities, Penal troops are more often than not dead weight. Attempting to use them meets the same results as Conscripts, although you may be able to tackle a crewed weapon or lone Grenadier before needing to retreat or being wiped out.

Panzergrenadiere cost 280 manpower and will handedly and quickly beat all manner of enemy infantry at any range, no matter if standing still or charging, with only Shock Troops requiring them to stop and stand their ground for fear of getting beaten at only the closest of ranges. If faced with a crewed weapon, their DPS output is often high enough to kill the gunner before they can be suppressed, and, in any event, their bundled grenade has a long enough range to wipe the crew before being suppressed as well. Late game, Panzergrenadiere can be issued with a pair of Panzerschrecks, with four 'Shrecks being capable of wiping out a T-34 obr 1942 (e.g. T-34/76) with a single volley of fire. With this upgrade, ALL Soviet vehicles, even the ISU-152 and Kliment Voroshilov-series of tanks are forced to retreat in the face of even a pair of Panzergrenadiere. Even with Panzershrecks mounted, PGs retain enough DPS to be able to beat a Conscript squad at close to medium range, and still retain their bundled grenade. Capable of warding off Soviet infantry and vehicles merely by their appearance on the field, Panzergrenadiere have no trouble reaching crewed ZiS weapons, removing them and denying their crucial presence to the Soviets.

Guards Riflemen cost 360 manpower and are limited to a doctrinal existence, and will lose to any Axis infantry squad unless the DP-28 upgrade is researched, regardless of cover. If met with a team weapon, Guards can at least create a window of escape with their RGD-33 hand grenade that can wipe the crew or at least kill the gunner. With DPs researched, Guards possess (from experience) a 50/50 chance of beating Grenadiers (that lack the LMG42 upgrade) at medium to short range, Pioneers at medium to long range, and Panzergrenadiere if the lattermost is out of cover and/or charging towards their position. Their default armament of two PTRS-41 14.5mm anti-materiel rifles are capable of two or three shotting the 222 armored car and the 251 halftrack, but are worth little even against the rear of anything other than the two aforementioned targets. The PTRS, is, however, a very effective anti-bunker weapon. With the DP upgrade purchased, Guards can choose to button an enemy vehicle, forcing it to a crawl and disabling its weapons (often the only thing capable of stopping an Axis vehicle rush). Late game, only their button ability makes their presence worthwhile, as they will either be rifle-grenaded to death, charged down by multiple Panzergrenadiere, or run over by an Axis vehicle using the Blitzkrieg ability. Attempting to use them to charge up to crewed weapons is an exercise in frustration, as both the PTRS rifle and the DP light machine gun do not fire on the move. Guards are just as "squishy" as Conscripts and Penal troops, and thus, charging Axis vehicles with them usually yields a squad of dead light infantry.

Are these facts in dispute? Are we fine with said facts? If you are, you have no concept of "balance", regardless of side. I think the Heer is cool as sh*t; I've spent over 40 hours researching them over the last two years for a realism mod I'm working on for vCoH. You know one of the few things I think is equally/slightly more cool? The Red Army, for pulling one of the most baffling turnaround victories (see: WWII) out of its rear end against all odds and all expectations. Hell, I took my screen name from a Red Army character in Call of Duty 2. That doesn't diminish the respect and awe I still have towards the German war machine.

If anyone wants to take politics and fanboyism into the mix, I'll take your head and shove it so far up your aft end that the lump in your throat will be your nose. Enough of this bollocks. Grow up and have a serious discussion.

FULL ACK

First of all let me say that I love the changes to the cover system and most of the weapon profiles. Having said that,

Pios too stronk
LMG or G43 Grens too stronk
PGs good from all ranges
lategame Wehr Armor WAY too stronk
Blitzkrieg ability on tanks WAY too stronk

I've been playing both factions, Germans is definitely easymode at the moment. Kinda makes wins as Soviets the best thing in the game right now. Go against the grain!

Pro challenge: Get a win as Soviets in a random 4v4 and stream yourself doing it.

This exactly. Currently Soviets are far too Commander dependant, needing specific Commander call ins or upgrades to compete with the Germans by filling up their huge gaps in the counter system that shouldn't even be there in the first place. (KV-1, PPSH/Shocks, IS-2, ISU.) Germans however can 100% play without using a Commander, sure it'll be harder but it's not neccesary because everything on the base faction is more than capable of countering everything the Soviets have, even with Commanders. German commanders can also absolutely hard counter and just smash the Soviets very delicate commander choice. For example if the Soviet goes IS-2 which is needed to compete with Panthers, then the German can go for a Pak 43 and destroy the IS-2. Tigers or Tiger Ace will hard counter KV-1. Any Commander with a one click arty will counter any Howitzer play. Soviets have to be so delicate and careful with their Commander choice because not only is it needed to counter the German core units, but also can just lose the game if you don't pick the right one.

Soviets also lack any consistent AT on the base faction. The only AT for Soviets is AT guns and SU-85's which are incredibly map dependant and are unable to get killing blows because of on most maps how many choke points and shot blockers prevent any kind of chasing. Supporting AT does not work, simple as that as every single supporting AT is inconsistent and entirely unreliable. Guards button which are still Commander specific are negated by instant-popping smoke which almost all of the good and used Commanders have, AT nades are incredibly RNG dependant and just will not penetrate frontal armour enough. You can just say "Get the rear armour" all you like, but by the time you have positioned for the rear armour it means the Panther is already behind the SU-85. Mines are avoidable and often accidently explode to random tank shells unintentionally or a well placed mine that you were depending on to protect your flank gets detonated by a lone Pio squad looking to cap a point. Spamming enough mines to cover all of the flanks and prevent 1 click wonder Blitzkrieg frontal circle strafe means you have to absolutely spam mines everywhere, which makes them so likely to backfire and blow up the Soviets own vehicle if trying to bait a German vehicle into them by trying over them.

The huge issue is how hard Blitzkrieg and smoke completely breaks the dynamic and balance of tank engagements and throw out absolutely and skill, micro, tactics and positioning. Don't need to flank or bait out a tank when you can just press the Blitzkrieg button. I have lost so many games against bad players that I have winning easily until Panthers, Tigers or especially Tiger Ace pop Blitzkrieg and just right click behind my tanks. Guard Buttons ignored by smoke, AT nades don't penetrate, AT gun fires 1 shot until tank is behind Arc. Panther finally hits the mine and gets damaged engine, however damaged engine does not stop Blitzkrieg, damage engine stops the tank from activating Blitzkrieg; Meaning that a Panther with Blitzkrieg that drives over a mine or gets hit by a well executed rear armour Blitzrkieg is still moving at normal speed, because of damage engine speed x2 rather than what the damage engine speed is supposed to be. Bearing in mind how much munitions it costs for the Soviet to support the AT. After spending 100 munitions per guard squad. Button(40), button(40) again because of smoke negating the first button, AT nade(25), AT nade(25) again because the first one didn't penetrate, and several mines(30 each) and Mark Target(80) if you're lucky enough to have it. That's well over 200 munitions for every tank enagement, which doesn't even work. Once the Panther, P4 or Tiger gets the circle strafe on an SU-85 or ISU by pressing Blitzkrieg then you can't excape it, even with a damaged engine. Blitzkrieg is probably the most broken thing at the moment. Fair enough a P4 having Blitzkrieg, but the Panther, Tiger and Tiger Ace having Blitzkrieg is an absolute joke. And as a result even trying to support your tanks with anything other than mines is just a waste of time and money. It's also absurd how Blitzkreig works on reverse move so despite how out of position a tank can get so long as it has Blitzkreig and it's engine it can just pop Blitzkreig and drive away out of everything.

The best part is what do the Soviets get in exchange for the instant free flank or get out of outplayed and caught card? Well when Soviets get vet 1 they can capture points ir if they're lucky can see further! Is-2 capping points is a joke and just lazy design.

Here's a replay to support this. Showing That well prepared and supported Soviet tanks are negated and countered by pressing 3 buttons. Right click down the middle, Blitzkrieg and smoke when the button comes which is too much for Mines, Button, AT nades, kiting and refacing, AT guns, Mark Target. Bearing in mind of course that the German doesn't have to earn the Blitzkrieg on Vet1, because it can be bought with elite infantry.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/15834/pwnagemachine-vs-majorownage

Buffing the IS-2 and ISU is just the wrong path. Soviet needs more versatile and more variety of AT on the base faction, not on their commanders. FOr example Soviets need Penals with Bazookas as an upgrade and the KV-1 on the base faction, either Tier 3 or Tier 4 to give Soviets more options, dynamic and strategies.

+1. People on this forum that lean towards the German Bias seem to completley forget now that in their Eyes infantry is "Balanced" without "Balancing" Soviet support teams or armor is breaking the overall balance.

Just saw two PPsh Conscript squads getting raped by a G43 Gren squad...balance,riiiiight

I just want to chime in on the age old tradition of "you dont play Soviets so you have no idea". Do you guys know its only 2 factions? So even if one plays only one faction unless they have 100 percent win rate, they have an idea of how they got beat and what Sovs can and cant do. Its not like there are 10 factions. It is only 2. And every game is Soviet vs German.

And with that, I like to say Good night and Good riddance to the age old tradition of "you don't understand me" argument.

Just saw two PPsh Conscript squads getting raped by a G43 Gren squad...balance,riiiiight

ROIDH
ER
P
L
A
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This exactly. Currently Soviets are far too Commander dependant, needing specific Commander call ins or upgrades to compete with the Germans by filling up their huge gaps in the counter system that shouldn't even be there in the first place. (KV-1, PPSH/Shocks, IS-2, ISU.) Germans however can 100% play without using a Commander, sure it'll be harder but it's not neccesary because everything on the base faction is more than capable of countering everything the Soviets have, even with Commanders. German commanders can also absolutely hard counter and just smash the Soviets very delicate commander choice. For example if the Soviet goes IS-2 which is needed to compete with Panthers, then the German can go for a Pak 43 and destroy the IS-2. Tigers or Tiger Ace will hard counter KV-1. Any Commander with a one click arty will counter any Howitzer play. Soviets have to be so delicate and careful with their Commander choice because not only is it needed to counter the German core units, but also can just lose the game if you don't pick the right one.

Holy Mother!!!! I m too lazy to read your full post, but I'll believe anybody who takes the time to write a post with that many thoughts and conclusions.

Stop cry soviets!

Game is fine