How the new Patch changed the flow and feel of the game.

I don't know, for me a lot of the issues described are a result of the small arms changes. I think if you're struggling after new patch you are really struggling to adapt rather than something is unbalanced.

If I only struggle with one faction, it's an "adapt" issue?

Lets be honest last couple of months it was extremly easy to play as a Soviet. All you needed was a blob of Conscripts equipped with PPSHs roaming around the battlefield and destroying everything.

And did you, pray tell, ever try play without ppsh cons? Because you know, actually all these other strats for soviets sucked last patch as well, which was why 90% of the player base was playing advanced warfare. You had ppsh con spam on all maps, and sniper spam on some maps (Langres and crossing, other maps it really was not a problem), and other strats were pretty easy to counter as germans.

Now everything depends of how you approach the engagement and how you utilize cover. If you do it right Pios will die, so will Grenadiers and Panzer Grenadiers as well. You need to think more strategically in this game now.

I don't have to think as germans. I know that if my grens are atleast in yellow cover, I will win against conscripts in heavy cover guaranteed. I don't have to think about whether my PGrens have to run through red cover to get to cons, they'll easily win even if take some fire. I don't have to worry about combat engineers with my units, because they will all win against them. I don't have to worry about getting flanked by automatic weapon squads, because the soviet ones won't kill anything on retreat. I don't have to worry about early vehicles, because the M3 is the worst it has ever been. I don't have to worry about infantry AT with tanks, because soviet AT is still bad. There's a lot I don't have to think about as germans that i have to constantly think about as soviets.

Of course your rank as a Soviet will drop but it shouldn't be there in the first place do to the advantage you had over couple of last months. It is basically almost the same situation that happend when MG42 was overpowered at the beginning of CoH cycle.

My soviet rank already was half of my german one before this because I was purposedly avoiding playing ppsh spam or more than one sniper. In that sense this patch mostly just forced my playstyle on everyone, but the thing is, all you're left with now are the strats that were already weak before this patch, and they've been made even weaker by the mechanics changes that all favor the german faction design.

Err... how can it drop if everyone is dropping with you?

Personally, I'm still trying to work out where the Con PPSh spam story came from... It seems to me it has originated after the patch was released, prior to that everyone was complaining about Shocks.

It will drop because you will be matched against players with similar ELO you've beaten before due to imbalances and now when the odds are a bit different it won't be that easy. Someone on this forum even complained that he's unable to win against people he didn't have problems before this patch.

As far as the second part of your question goes: I play both factions with Soviets being in favour and I can tell you and I am 100% sure with this that it was far easier to win as a Soviet last two patches before this one especially when you were good at executing some popular strats with Snipers, mass Conscripts or utilizing new commander. Experienced and done it myself for both sides of the equation.

And I never complained about Shocks. I found them easy to beat and later in to the game I was guaranteed free vehicles roaming time.

They should change the name of Penals to "Infantry Troops" since they're now apparently the new frontline infantry, and it's weird having penal troops being the mainstay of the Red Army..

In my dreams, though....

They should change the name of Penals to "Infantry Troops" since they're now apparently the new frontline infantry, and it's weird having penal troops being the mainstay of the Red Army..

In my dreams, though....

this
x10000

i was thinking about this

i might start a thread about it

But how are you supposed to close the distance? ... Its a constant uphill battle. ... The current patch sharply contradicts and penalizes the obvious advantage and design of one faction.

All this has been true well before the patch, in fact since the resource revamp patch in beta. The current patch just exacerbated fundamental design flaws by rectifying the game at other places.

I can't tell if combat's going the right direction, but the tech costs for T3/T4 as Soviets is a bit brutal. I already use call-in tanks but I'm generally not gonna risk T3/T4 anytime soon. Combat overall has been more brutal for Soviets I think, and it's hard to press the advantage against just Grens.

I love the direction the march deployment patch is going for. Sure, there are some things that need to be balanced like pioneers. Infantry battle is now so much more challenging and exciting. I play both factions a lot. I have to admit that I perform better with OST at the moment because when playing as Soviets you often face assgrens which are really strong right now and are hard to counter in the beginning. Especially because you don't know whether your opponent went for them or not.

My suggestions:
+ make oohraa for free
Especially in the beginning it is eating up your ammo and a soviet player needs that ammo for molotovs. I've been in a lot of situations in which I needed to throw a molotov but I couldn't because I needed oohraa to approach the OST player and I had no ammo left afterwards. This is a very serious problem in the beginning of a match.I am confident that if Relic pulled out some data about how much ammo people spend on oohraa after the patch, they would find a significant increase in ammo spent.

+ Nerf pioneers to be less lethal
There are situations in which they can even fight off penals.

+ Nerf assgrens to be less lethal
They are killing machines right now. Sure, they don't have Panzerfaust, but they have taken over the map before you can get a M3 out with flamers inside if you didn't go straight for t1.

+ Reduce building time of Soviet t1 and t2 to OST t1 building time
I know that the building time has been reduced in the last smaller patch but I think it should match German building time. This way, a Soviet player would be able to have penals out at roughly the same time as grens are hitting the battlefield (I think that penals have a longer building time than grens)or a maxim for countering assgrens.

Don't nerf Assault Grens but maybe make them 1CP if it's such a huge problem.

Don't nerf Assault Grens but maybe make them 1CP if it's such a huge problem.

agreed. I don't want to see assgrens nerfed to uselessness again. I hope some of the lesser used doctrines get looked at honestly.

Also I think Pios are fine. They will still die easily and they need to close the gap to do some damage. Pios coming close = golden opportunity for a molotov.

Also I think Pios are fine. They will still die easily and they need to close the gap to do some damage. Pios coming close = golden opportunity for a molotov.

You need to pay extra attention when fighting Pios, the german builder unit. Do you have to pay extra attention when fighting Engineers, the soviet builder unit? Is the soviet Engineer squad capable of wiping your elite infantry in reasonable time? Pios are. And thats unbalanced.

If I only struggle with one faction, it's an "adapt" issue?

Absolutly. If you play germans you don't have to adapt, but with soviets you do

You need to pay extra attention when fighting Pios, the german builder unit. Do you have to pay extra attention when fighting Engineers, the soviet builder unit? Is the soviet Engineer squad capable of wiping your elite infantry in reasonable time? Pios are. And thats unbalanced.

I agree that Pio's do too much damage, but you can't say nerf Pio's because they build buildings. That makes no sense. Pio's had little to no role in combat until this patch. Finally, they are able to enter combat and contribute. They also must be close and don't scale well so I like them. Like I said a small nerf in damage is needed, but they are very close.

The problem with this patch is, as has been stated, it exaggerates the problems with the Soviet faction. The game is actually getting better, but it will be an uphill battle.

I also agree that T3 and T4 should be brought down in price for Soviets. CE's also probably deserve a slight boost in damage.

Grens should also probably not be able to build bunkers, unsure on this one with new bunker nerf.

Struggling with Pio's? A flame penal will clear that right up.

Maxim needs to be buffed again. Probably much higher suppression.

I agree that Pio's do too much damage, but you can't say nerf Pio's because they build buildings. That makes no sense. Pio's had little to no role in combat until this patch. Finally, they are able to enter combat and contribute. They also must be close and don't scale well so I like them. Like I said a small nerf in damage is needed, but they are very close.

How do you want combat engineers then to be? So far, you only talk about Pios and that you are happy they can join combat. Combat engineers need a strong buff then so that they can enter combat as well. Do you see where that leads to? You kind of introduce new combat infantry. That is not what these units are made for. In vCOH things were good in this regard. There is one thing though I really like about how pioneers work right now: they can actually achieve vet without using a Pay to Win commander that can purchase veterancy.

How do you want combat engineers then to be? So far, you only talk about Pios and that you are happy they can join combat. Combat engineers need a strong buff then so that they can enter combat as well. Do you see where that leads to? You kind of introduce new combat infantry. That is not what these units are made for. In vCOH things were good in this regard. There is one thing though I really like about how pioneers work right now: they can actually achieve vet without using a Pay to Win commander that can purchase veterancy.

We don't need to make CE's the same as Pio's or vice versa. They are different units with different abilities.

Pio's deserve to be a combat troop, not just a repair/building/capping unit. By giving them all these tasks you force the Ost player to make trade offs. Trade offs are good for the meta.

CE's don't need to be front line troops to be balanced. Their primary goal is to produce obstacles and mines. If you upgrade them with flames they are good at protecting supporting units. They force a different range of trade offs. CE's at range can deal some nice damage right now if they support another unit.

In vCOH pio's also had flame throwers that did not explode, were cheaper, and vet could be purchased for them so you did see them vet every game. If not for being able to buy vet pio's would only rarely have been vetable in vCOH, because their small squad size would have meant regular wipes of high vet units. The unit in COH2, while sharing a name and function, is very different in the game.

Pio's deserve to be a combat troop, not just a repair/building/capping unit. By giving them all these tasks you force the Ost player to make trade offs. Trade offs are good for the meta.

CE's don't need to be front line troops to be balanced. Their primary goal is to produce obstacles and mines. If you upgrade them with flames they are good at protecting supporting units. They force a different range of trade offs. CE's at range can deal some nice damage right now if they support another unit.

Both units should be equally viable in their roles. Pios can also get flamers as well to increase their DPS. CE and Pios are(were) the most mirrored units in the game. They build structures and mines, repair, harass, and are cheap. Best way to asymmetrically balance them is to raise Mosin DPS so CEs are effective in far ranges while Pio dominate in close ranges. As of this moment, stock Mosin DPS is really low to be effective...less than half of K98's DPS and a fraction of MP40s in close ranges. It's literally the weakest weapon in the game.

You need to pay extra attention when fighting Pios, the german builder unit. Do you have to pay extra attention when fighting Engineers, the soviet builder unit? Is the soviet Engineer squad capable of wiping your elite infantry in reasonable time? Pios are. And thats unbalanced.

replays?

For me this is the best patch to date. My friends and i started to have fun again playing the game.

Keep working in that direction.

TY Devs.

P.S Some cmdrs are way more useful then others so we always use them. So work is still needed there.

As of this moment, stock Mosin DPS is really low to be effective...less than half of K98's DPS and a fraction of MP40s in close ranges. It's literally the weakest weapon in the game.

Well, not literally.. I'd say the weakest weapon in the game is the Crew MP 40 (which Pios used to use), the Crew Mosin-Nagant, or the Osttruppen Kar 98k (which may not count as it is still potent when used properly). I lean toward the Crew Mosin-Nagant, a full support weapon crew (without any heavy weapons, just the crew) was about on-par with pre-patch Osttruppen out of cover.