HOLY POTATOES !!! patch 3/25

Ninja change spotted in Cata stream,

Ghost wire is fixed

What's the story of Guard's DPs? They've been upped to 100 muni and don't seem to have been given anything in return. My experience previously of them is that they don't hold a candle to the (now cheaper) MG42... are they better or are they the same? (if they are the same then that's one hell of a nerf, the DP weren't worth the 60 munis as it was last patch...

how is the Grenadiers? I noticed that the armor was decreased from 1.5 to 1....

What's the story of Guard's DPs? They've been upped to 100 muni and don't seem to have been given anything in return. My experience previously of them is that they don't hold a candle to the (now cheaper) MG42... are they better or are they the same? (if they are the same then that's one hell of a nerf, the DP weren't worth the 60 munis as it was last patch...

Cataclaw just have a game, a vet 2 pio capping a point without cover, Guards with DP28 charged the pio into point blank range, Pio squad wipe the Guards with 2 men survived.

The Soviet's are designed to lack flexibility relative to the Germans. You aren't meant to get more than 1 late tier building.

what is this, mother russia has no boundaries, atleast shouldn't have any! Bad game design is bad...

Isn't RTS meant to give the player the option to use everything in their disposal to try and crush the enemy ?

Cataclaw just have a game, a vet 2 pio capping a point without cover, Guards with DP28 charged the pio into point blank range, Pio squad wipe the Guards with 2 men survived.

Oh dear... Guards sound like they've been nerfed to hell...

Oh dear... Guards sound like they've been nerfed to hell...

They did lose their 1.5 armour(like Grenadiers), but then again it's more that pioneer SMGs are incredibly lethal at short-range now. They'll kill an engie squad incredibly quick if they manage to get close compared to before it was relatively even. Also that may have to do with the majority of the Guards being unable to fire while moving given that four of them have heavy weapons(PTRS/DPs).

From my experience with the patch so far. Infantry combat is far quicker and charging generally seems like a very bad idea unless you have cover on the approach. Units like the 221/222 can exist far longer than they did in a combat role and actually be a reasonable shock unit for its cost. Also the buffed 20mm doesn't hurt as it can actually blast away outside rifle range with each shot having a reasonable chance to hit.

Haven't tried the Soviet side.

Oh dear... Guards sound like they've been nerfed to hell...

Nope pios just became op. Saw a group of four of them beat a defensive line of 1 upgraded guard and 2 cons and only one of them had a flamethrower.

And I figured guards would do much better if their LMGs where raised to 100 but they don't seem very strong in my experiences.

So it's not just the Americans complaining about Pioneer spam eh?

The Soviet's are designed to lack flexibility relative to the Germans. You aren't meant to get more than 1 late tier building.

Well, in my oppinion Russian T3 should be a bit cheaper in fuel cost. People will be forced to pick advanced warfare commander and build T4. Or at least, enable Zis AT gun when T3 is built.

So it's not just the Americans complaining about Pioneer spam eh?

What? the Brit was the main victim of piospam
Yankee can rape piospam easily.

What? the Brit was the main victim of piospam
Yankee can rape piospam easily.

It's a joke, Panzergrenadiers sometimes say "I'd give anything to fight the Westerners. Those Americans are always complaining about Pioneer spam."


Anyway, it seems like they accidentally made Pioneers way too strong. Maybe they gave them Assault Grenadier MP 40's by mistake or something, but they definitely need changed. Pioneers can take on Conscripts 1v1! Apparently 2 squads of them can even challenge Shock Troops.

It's a joke, Panzergrenadiers sometimes say "I'd give anything to fight the Westerners. Those Americans are always complaining about Pioneer spam."


Anyway, it seems like they accidentally made Pioneers way too strong. Maybe they gave them Assault Grenadier MP 40's by mistake or something, but they definitely need changed. Pioneers can take on Conscripts 1v1! Apparently 2 squads of them can even challenge Shock Troops.

Who knows? 2 engi can beat the fuck out of one PG or one Volks out of their cover
In COH2, 1 pio = 2 vCOH pio. It is too early saying this just because someone ignoring the cover like what COH2 gameplay was.

Cataclaw just have a game, a vet 2 pio capping a point without cover, Guards with DP28 charged the pio into point blank range, Pio squad wipe the Guards with 2 men survived.

Aye, that was hilarious. A sweet "WTF" moment for the new patch.

Played 4 Soviet games last night, won 1 (because he was a complete noob) lost 3 due to ass grens and PG's. I then switched to Germans (which I never play) and won 5 in a row purely by grens,PG's and a scout car. I lost 1 to a guy who used Partisans which seem to be a good choice now for Soviets as you can flank Germans in cover with the anti infantry partisans call ins from buildings. I will be trying Partisans tonight. But for sure Germans seem to be EZ game.

Early game unit review post patch (not particularly serious):

Soviets:

Cons: less mobile than ever, damage gets completely neutered every time they try to move an inch thanks to the new completely debilitating movement penalties on bolt-action. You're better off just sitting in buildings or crawling forward with sandbag walls than trying to flank.

Cons(ppsh): Better ppsh damage than ever, because hey, they were underpowered before right? Again a patch that pushes soviets even further into this one niche of ppsh con spam.

Combat engineers: so outclassed by pioneers it ain't even funny. They'd have to go down further to like 130mp before they'd be anywhere near the cost-performance of pios

M3: The most papier mache vehicle coh has ever seen. Forget about fausting this baby, it's a waste of munition, a pioneer squad can take it out from the front.

Penals: the price drop came with a hefty drop in DPS as well, because as we know, penals were op before. Good thing they fixed that, would've hated to have anything that could deal damage for the soviet army.

Sniper: mostly the same as last patch except the aim time makes them feel far clunkier because it can take several seconds before they fire first round. Lost ability to man M3s, but who cares.

Shocks: now lose to such advanced tactics such as : 2xGrens shooting at them from any range (including point blank), 2x pios shooting at them from any range, 1x PG squad running up to them, a single scout car. A shocking waste of MP mostly.

Guards: got their DP damage upped by 33%, got the price of said DP increased by >50%, seem to have lost their super mosins so overall their damage will only be the same as before patch ONLY if you pay 100 munitions. But atleast they've got freaking mininukes in their grenade belt. Oh and seem to also have lost their 1.5 armor so huge mp bleed through them.

Irregulars didn't actually try. I'd actually expect irregulars to be super powerful now, because for 180MP you get an LMG42 or the new super DPs so that's a real bargain and the commander has ppsh. Could actually see regular use from some people now...

Partisans: don't own, probably not changed much unless they got some ninja nerfs on them. SVT version is probably more useless than ever, ppsh version better than ever, and LMG version unchanged.

Maxim: going to get decrewed by a single gren without lmg or pios or assgren or PG squad flanking them. Other than that nothing much has changed.

Germans:

Pios: the new king of the hill of the early game infantry war. These babies slaughter cons one on one while also dealing extremely well with shocks and guards and come with all the utility you've come to know and love. No point in the flamer anymore though.

Grenadiers: Largely obsolete, due to the game now even further penalizing bolt action rifles, M3 armor being such a joke there's no point in fausts, and teching being so slow you're never going to see a T70 or M5 again. Oh and the pios which provide far better cover for MG42s now.

Grens(LMG42): Still an ok weapon. Still has issues with mobility

Grens(G43): These got buffed too, because as we know G43s were underpowered. Lost a bit of long range DPS but gained a huge amount of short range dps as well as not being affected by the haha penalties on bolt rifles. Probably only reason to go grens if you plan on upgrading to these.

Assgrens: like pios except with combat veterancy and combat related abilities. Use them if you don't mind being locked to the commander tree, but remember that pios make extremely good replacements.

PGs: Mostly the same ownage train they've always been, except now facing mostly neutered soviet infantry. Just watch out for multiple ppsh cons, those still hurt. Good thing there's no reason for them to really outnumber you with the 280MP cost.

Osttruppen: Beat cons when they start in cover now. Can fire on the move now, but thanks to the bolt rifle penalties coupled with their innate accuracy they will not hit the broad side of a barn. But for that same 200MP price you could have pios that don't need cover, don't need to worry about moving, can repair, and don't need a specific commander, so why bother?

MG42: somewhat more likely to get sniped by cons on the first volley or in general if the cons are in heavy cover. Apart from that nothing has really changed here.

Sniper: got a large survivability nerf, for some reason. Not worth the risk really.

222: the new flameht. Somewhat less surviveable but a lot more maneuverable and far stabler DPS output at all ranges. Also cheaper. Also good vision, for what that's worth. Only natural enemy is mines really.

251: a scout car without a rotating turret or upgun option. But can reinforce. But you could just build a reinforcement bunker instead and save the precious fuel for more 222s or heavier vehicles so I'm not really sure they're worth building.


Overall balance: ppsh spam or bust for soviets, and even then it's a ridiculously uphill battle. Lots of build variety early game...purely for germans, soviets really have zero choice now.

From what i have seen so far rifles and lmg's have become the dominant weapon so far. standing out in the open is a good way to get your shit killed. Because of this change assault weapons have far less impact and shocks and assault package script should be handled with care. charging rifle soldiers in cover is suicide. you really need to flank with them.

Also goes for the maxim and mg42. parking them in the open is not a good idea. that said trying to charge them from the front will give your soldiers a bad case of death.

Early game unit review post patch (not particularly serious):

Thanks Cruzz, looks like poor previously underpowered Germans are now more balanced...

That is my understanding as well (based on wiki ) ...which is the reason why I am confused about the weapon profiles in the patchnotes, i.e. G43 (being a longer rifle afaik) having a carabine weapon profile and kar98 (being shorter rifle) not.

As someone suggested above, maybe Relic uses the term carabine in a different meaning, not the actual definition (??).

Kar.98 k is not a carabine-type rifle! RTF Wiki!

And there will be no more Clown cars with snipers, only way with Soviet t1 is, maybe, flamer penals with m3