The underused abilities

These are some abilities (both vet.1 and commander) I feel are underused and/or underperforming in the current balance environment, and the reasons why. I'm not saying that all of them should be buffed, and I've tried to abstain from offering concrete changes to them (since we've seen many times how a seemingly small change to an ability turns the meta upside-down, and frankly most of the time I don't feel competent enough to predict such a change's overall impact).

That being said, I find myself using these very rarely, if at all, and I haven't really seen them used much in the pros' casts, or tournaments. While most of the balance discussions naturally revolve around the most popular flavor-of-the-month units/abilities, I feel it's a shame that a part of the game remains more or less untouched in high level play, since that detracts from the depth of gameplay and the number of available strategies. Hopefully future patches or meta changes will make these (and others I've doubtlessly missed) more viable.

All of this is from a 1v1 perspective. In bigger games, obviously, anything goes.

Ostheer

• German Tank Traps
  
  These are... bad. The default distance between the traps makes all Soviet vehicles aside from the heavies (IS2, ISU152, KV1/2/8) pass through them freely. Granted, the pathing makes sure that it takes them an extra second or two, but that's hardly worth the time it takes to build the traps. It is possible to place them close enough manually, but it's a micro exercise rarely worth the time considering they die to a couple of shots from pretty much anything, aside from small arms.
  
  
• Trenches
  
  While there isn't anything wrong with trenches themselves (I think their cover bonus is more than green cover?), they just seem unnecessary to the Ostheer. The wide availability of molotovs and the loss of mobility (plus the chance to lose the trench to the enemy) greatly limit the situations where you think building a trench somewhere is the best use for your pio/gren's time.
  
  
• Hull Down
  
  Decent bonuses on paper, but in practice the immobilization is too harsh a penalty. With german tanks as expensive as they are, you'd really rather they're doing something at all times. Plus, SU85's range.
  
  
• Paks' Target Weak Point
  
  Target Weak Point in itself is a great ability on StuGs and the Brummbar. The issue with the Pak (40 & 43) version is that it seems to be bugged, as the gun misfires if the target is moving.
  
  
• Ambush Camouflage
  
  Again, decent on paper (aside maybe from the cost), it's just hard as hell to make use of it, especially on MG42s, since someone is always out of cover, ruining the camouflage.
  
  
• Smoke Drop
  
  I wasn't sure if I should include it. It's good and has many uses. It would just be much better if you could choose the direction of the plane, since the smoke is quite linear. Also, the delay between the call-in and the smoke falling makes it rather hard to use defensively (to cover a retreat). That may be intended, though.
  
  
• Infantry Awareness
  
  This is the 222's and 251's vet1 ability. 10 munitions for 20 secs of infantry detection (on the mini and tac maps). In addition to requiring vet1 on some rather squishy units, the duration seems too short for it to be a reliable help in preventing flanks. Also, the scout car at vet2 (if it gets there) has line of sight equal to the ability's range, making it of any use only to see behind LoS blockers.
  
  
• Sniper Incendiary Shot
  
  Seems bugged. It does do more damage, potentially killing several entities, but the only trace of the advertised stun is the icons that flash above the target.
  
  
• StuG III E
  
  Paper armor and a blind gunner shooting basketballs. No price is low enough.
  
  Soviet
  
  
• Soviet Tank Traps
  
  In contrast to their German counterparts, soviet engineers have actually taken the time to measure the average tank's hull width. Ostheer tanks (and all other vehicles, for that matter) cannot freely pass between these tank traps, so they could be used in theory to block an early flame halftrack for example. They are still made of glass, though, and very map-dependant. Not to mention only available to the very "popular" as of late defensive commander.
  
  
• Armored Vehicle Detection
  
  Too expensive, short-timed and/or short-ranged to be worth it.
  
  
• Trip Wire Flares
  
  They don't always kill, and the small trigger area of the mine makes it likely that the enemy squads will just pass around it, making it unreliable in keeping a flank safe. Plus, you're likely using your conscripts and elite infantry for things other than mine-laying.
  
  
• B4 203mm Howitzer
  
  It just seems too expensive for 1v1. The Ostheer have enough off-map artillery that placing a 600mp static unit is often a bit too much of a risk, considering how hard it is to use it versus a mobile enemy.
  
  
• For Mother Russia!
  
  I honestly don't have enough experience with this ability to say it's UP. It just seems very rarely used, likely because the only commander that has it isn't particularly popular.
  
  
• Sniper Flare
  
  It's maybe too expensive for what it does. Recon run replaces it when available. It also gives away your sniper's general location if seen.
  
  
  I'd be glad to be proven wrong about any of these. Please post any suggestions you have for their proper use, or situations they could help in.
  

I've been using ambush camouflage on panzergrenadiers lately. It takes some attention to make sure they are all in cover, but when they are, and a soviet squad gets close enough.. well, lets just say that the soviet player will have to write 6 soviet mothers some very ill letters.

You've forgotten the counter barrage ability for Ostheer mortars. Never saw it used and never used it myself.

You've forgotten the counter barrage ability for Ostheer mortars. Never saw it used and never used it myself.

That is rather because default attack mode outshines everything else, even its normal barrage.

i think u never saw 2-3 stugs on Hulldown ability with a few MG42's, it makes a position completely defensive and safe due to the huge range, rate of fire and defensive buffs, this ability is great for funneled places however if its on an open area its not so good.

Good list. I agree with the whole thing except for smoke bombs

These are some abilities (both vet.1 and commander) I feel are underused and/or underperforming in the current balance environment, and the reasons why. I'm not saying that all of them should be buffed, and I've tried to abstain from offering concrete changes to them (since we've seen many times how a seemingly small change to an ability turns the meta upside-down, and frankly most of the time I don't feel competent enough to predict such a change's overall impact).

That being said, I find myself using these very rarely, if at all, and I haven't really seen them used much in the pros' casts, or tournaments. While most of the balance discussions naturally revolve around the most popular flavor-of-the-month units/abilities, I feel it's a shame that a part of the game remains more or less untouched in high level play, since that detracts from the depth of gameplay and the number of available strategies. Hopefully future patches or meta changes will make these (and others I've doubtlessly missed) more viable.

All of this is from a 1v1 perspective. In bigger games, obviously, anything goes.

Ostheer

• German Tank Traps
  
  These are... bad. The default distance between the traps makes all Soviet vehicles aside from the heavies (IS2, ISU152, KV1/2/8) pass through them freely. Granted, the pathing makes sure that it takes them an extra second or two, but that's hardly worth the time it takes to build the traps. It is possible to place them close enough manually, but it's a micro exercise rarely worth the time considering they die to a couple of shots from pretty much anything, aside from small arms.
  
  
• Trenches
  
  While there isn't anything wrong with trenches themselves (I think their cover bonus is more than green cover?), they just seem unnecessary to the Ostheer. The wide availability of molotovs and the loss of mobility (plus the chance to lose the trench to the enemy) greatly limit the situations where you think building a trench somewhere is the best use for your pio/gren's time.
  
  
• Hull Down
  
  Decent bonuses on paper, but in practice the immobilization is too harsh a penalty. With german tanks as expensive as they are, you'd really rather they're doing something at all times. Plus, SU85's range.
  
  
• Paks' Target Weak Point
  
  Target Weak Point in itself is a great ability on StuGs and the Brummbar. The issue with the Pak (40 & 43) version is that it seems to be bugged, as the gun misfires if the target is moving.
  
  
• Ambush Camouflage
  
  Again, decent on paper (aside maybe from the cost), it's just hard as hell to make use of it, especially on MG42s, since someone is always out of cover, ruining the camouflage.
  
  
• Smoke Drop
  
  I wasn't sure if I should include it. It's good and has many uses. It would just be much better if you could choose the direction of the plane, since the smoke is quite linear. Also, the delay between the call-in and the smoke falling makes it rather hard to use defensively (to cover a retreat). That may be intended, though.
  
  
• Infantry Awareness
  
  This is the 222's and 251's vet1 ability. 10 munitions for 20 secs of infantry detection (on the mini and tac maps). In addition to requiring vet1 on some rather squishy units, the duration seems too short for it to be a reliable help in preventing flanks. Also, the scout car at vet2 (if it gets there) has line of sight equal to the ability's range, making it of any use only to see behind LoS blockers.
  
  
• Sniper Incendiary Shot
  
  Seems bugged. It does do more damage, potentially killing several entities, but the only trace of the advertised stun is the icons that flash above the target.
  
  
• StuG III E
  
  Paper armor and a blind gunner shooting basketballs. No price is low enough.
  
  Soviet
  
  
• Soviet Tank Traps
  
  In contrast to their German counterparts, soviet engineers have actually taken the time to measure the average tank's hull width. Ostheer tanks (and all other vehicles, for that matter) cannot freely pass between these tank traps, so they could be used in theory to block an early flame halftrack for example. They are still made of glass, though, and very map-dependant. Not to mention only available to the very "popular" as of late defensive commander.
  
  
• Armored Vehicle Detection
  
  Too expensive, short-timed and/or short-ranged to be worth it.
  
  
• Trip Wire Flares
  
  They don't always kill, and the small trigger area of the mine makes it likely that the enemy squads will just pass around it, making it unreliable in keeping a flank safe. Plus, you're likely using your conscripts and elite infantry for things other than mine-laying.
  
  
• B4 203mm Howitzer
  
  It just seems too expensive for 1v1. The Ostheer have enough off-map artillery that placing a 600mp static unit is often a bit too much of a risk, considering how hard it is to use it versus a mobile enemy.
  
  
• For Mother Russia!
  
  I honestly don't have enough experience with this ability to say it's UP. It just seems very rarely used, likely because the only commander that has it isn't particularly popular.
  
  
• Sniper Flare
  
  It's maybe too expensive for what it does. Recon run replaces it when available. It also gives away your sniper's general location if seen.
  
  
  I'd be glad to be proven wrong about any of these. Please post any suggestions you have for their proper use, or situations they could help in.
  

Great comparison! I like it very much! +1

You've forgotten the counter barrage ability for Ostheer mortars. Never saw it used and never used it myself.

I just played around with it in Janne252's cheatmod. It may actually be the worst of the lot

Essentially, what it gives your mortar is slightly increased range (equal to the 120mm's). You can turn it on and off at will, and as long as the mortar doesn't start counter-firing it doesn't affect the main barrage countdown. Also, you can actually attack ground while it's in counter barrage mode.

The problem is, if the ability actually does fire (which you are supposed to want to happen), that is, and enemy mortar opens fire in range, it launches a barrage at it that, as far as I can tell, is just a regular barrage (maybe some damage bonus - not sure). And then it slaps a countdown on the barrage and smoke that is actually quite bigger (!) than the normal one. Also, at Vet3 the regular barrage range catches up to the counter-barrage one (since it doesn't increase with veterancy).

It... sucks. Bad. Its name is quite ironic considering that the Soviet precision strike is infinitely better in mortar-vs-mortar combat. IMO it really should be reworked or replaced.

I never understood why Mortar Barrage has a cooldown, since you can just attack ground.

You should add soviet AT camo. It fires on infantry and undoes the camo and the crew also fire on anything in range giving up camo. It's pretty damn useless, btw does anyone know if it does any more damage then usual when it actually manages to fire out of camo?

You should add soviet AT camo. It fires on infantry and undoes the camo and the crew also fire on anything in range giving up camo. It's pretty damn useless, btw does anyone know if it does any more damage then usual when it actually manages to fire out of camo?

Ostheer AT camo does the same, actually.

You should add soviet AT camo. It fires on infantry and undoes the camo and the crew also fire on anything in range giving up camo. It's pretty damn useless, btw does anyone know if it does any more damage then usual when it actually manages to fire out of camo?

Use hold fire, dude.

"Hold Fire" is universal, it means it'll never shoot.

"Hold Fire" is universal, it means it'll never shoot.

micro

"Hold Fire" is universal, it means it'll never shoot.

You can right click on your intended target to fire even with hold-fire still toggled.

Also Ambush Camoflague was made a bit better and holding fire only requires the main model to be cloaked.

I agree with all of that except tripwire and sniper flare. Tripwires are fine imo, its just more of a matter that people forget to use them, but its true usually so much is going on its natural to forget to use them. Even with the small trigger radius if you notice you have time, do it.

Sniper flare lends itself extremely well when you want to execute a flank especially on a fortified area, this obviously favors smaller maps like langres as opposed to minsk, so its not always worth the 60 munition. If it were half its cost, say 30 munitions, or perhaps even 40 munutions, I think it would be used a lot more.

Trip Wire Flares

They don't always kill, and the small trigger area of the mine makes it likely that the enemy squads will just pass around it, making it unreliable in keeping a flank safe. Plus, you're likely using your conscripts and elite infantry for things other than mine-laying.

Whenever I have a vet squad that is capping a point, I put these down. Killed a German sniper with one yesterday

Let´s see:

-Armored vehicle detection
-Relief Infantry
-Rapid Conscription
-Riegel
-Healing german vet 1 ability

True. Riegel gets NEVER used

Whenever I have a vet squad that is capping a point, I put these down. Killed a German sniper with one yesterday

They are very underused, but for their price (10 ammo) they are doing an excellent job. Kill 1 soldier most of the times, 2 if you are lucky. + The flare effect.

True. Riegel gets NEVER used

Also very underused. Had a match where i took out 4 tanks, thx to riegel mines. They are laid faster than teller mines, cost the same, deal the same damage(?) and take out the tracks, so they are actually pretty cool.

Relief Infantry

one of my favorite commanders is the blitzkrieg with tiger and relief inf. So much fun to have a horde of Osts + Grens with g43 + 1-2 tigers



However

i would add ju 87 37mm at run.