Ram

Use the su85's then. oh wait you cannot use them because you have no concept of combined arms scouting or strat. you have not given me a good reason on the other hand why a panther should lose to t-34 + some AT. it goes against the very principality of combined arms of coh when you can just spam 2 units and easily win.

You can lose Panther to T34 and some AT guns in this game?????

Nooo way, if that is true this game sucks

What if they implemented a limit to the ammount of damage a t-34 could take, while ramming, so that a frontal ram at a Tiger would probably fail unless the Tiger was distracted? That would make the ram require a minimum of skill to pull off, and make it all the more rewarding when it worked. It would also make sure rams against heawys would be harder, while rewarding skill and tactics.

The first time I pulled a ram I lured the enemy Tiger into a narrow street, manouevered a T-34 to the back, using truesight for cover, and rammed him in the rear, having the rest of my armour at the flank. It was great fun and fealt extremely rewarding. Once I realised that I didnt have to outsmart him and could just as easily ram him head on it wasnt fun anymore.

It sounds like a text for Meme

You lured Tiger into narrow street and rammed it in its ass, didn't even need to outsmart the enemy?

Anyone who goes into narrow street with Tiger, doesn't need outsmarting. He is retarded by default....

It sounds like a text for Meme

You lured Tiger into narrow street and rammed it in its ass, didn't even need to outsmart the enemy?

Anyone who goes into narrow street with Tiger, doesn't need outsmarting. He is retarded by default....

That might be. Point remains, ram wouldnt feel as awkward if it required some skill and manouver to pull off, and it would feel all that more rewarding when you actually did.

That might be. Point remains, ram wouldnt feel as awkward if it required some skill and manouver to pull off, and it would feel all that more rewarding when you actually did.

Skill to pull off? Have you ever used ram? You have to be at a certain distance. You have to make sure there is nothing in the way, and you have to hope your opponent is caught off guard so he can't simply back away. You have to make sure not to get an engine damage by grens or mines to even attempt to pull it off.If you fail at any of those you get a 280 mp and 85 fuel investment that is dead in the water, and even if you do mangage to do all of that you get about a 60% CHANCE at disabling a heavy tank and your tank that you used to ram is completely useless until repaired. I don't know any other ability that has that many requirments to use.

And if you lose even a single T34 you can say goodbye to your number advantage. And considering the T34 can't penetrate the BACK of the tiger 50% of the time they aren't really good for direct combat with armor. There is only 2 situations where a smart soviet player will even attempt a ram. Either they can not destroy the target with convetional means (which is often due to lacking AT options) or the target is well behind enemy lines where the ramming tank can be easily repaired at which point you have no one but yourself to blame for having a unsapported tank so far away from your troops.


so what is it you are exactly do you want add that will add more "skill" to this ability?

For everyone claiming that there is no AT in T3, I have no trouble using T34s backed by ZiS guns and conscripts for AT nade snares. It plays almost exactly like Americans from vCoH. I never expect a Sherman to go head to head with a Panther, but he screens my ATguns from infantry while the ATgun threatens the armor.

Ram is a stupid extra gimmick that I would be fine with simply removing, but in the bigger interest I would like to see it changed to something more enjoyable. I agree putting all the AT and all the AI in separate tiers was kind of a dumb move, I'd rather see T70 and SU76 swapped so you can get heavy AI + light AT (T3) or light AI and heavy AT (T4).

This is in 1v1 and 2v2. I suspect lack of mobile tank AT is much more of an issue in larger games, though.

For everyone claiming that there is no AT in T3, I have no trouble using T34s backed by ZiS guns and conscripts for AT nade snares. It plays almost exactly like Americans from vCoH. I never expect a Sherman to go head to head with a Panther, but he screens my ATguns from infantry while the ATgun threatens the armor.

Ram is a stupid extra gimmick that I would be fine with simply removing, but in the bigger interest I would like to see it changed to something more enjoyable. I agree putting all the AT and all the AI in separate tiers was kind of a dumb move, I'd rather see T70 and SU76 swapped so you can get heavy AI + light AT (T3) or light AI and heavy AT (T4).

This is in 1v1 and 2v2. I suspect lack of mobile tank AT is much more of an issue in larger games, though.

The difference was that US T4 also had the M10, which could definetly punish the panthers and tigers if used well. The russians instead get a T70. The US get a reliable AT gun while the Russians get a slow-firing zis.

I like the SU-76 idea for other reasons, but that is even worse then a t34 since it can't even flank. You are forced to use the zis which can't be aggresive, are easily flanked, and are very EASILY destroyed by panzerwerfers, mortar halftracks, or one of the MANY off map call-ins. There is a reason you never see anyone win with only AT guns and that is what you are dooming T3 soviets to if ram is removed.

Edit: Also forgot to mention that the US had good AT infantry which the soviets have none of.

Replace T34-76 with 85s on the T3 building. Take out ramming and give another ability.

^This

Skill to pull off? Have you ever used ram? You have to be at a certain distance. You have to make sure there is nothing in the way, and you have to hope your opponent is caught off guard so he can't simply back away. You have to make sure not to get an engine damage by grens or mines to even attempt to pull it off.If you fail at any of those you get a 280 mp and 85 fuel investment that is dead in the water, and even if you do mangage to do all of that you get about a 60% CHANCE at disabling a heavy tank and your tank that you used to ram is completely useless until repaired. I don't know any other ability that has that many requirments to use.

And if you lose even a single T34 you can say goodbye to your number advantage. And considering the T34 can't penetrate the BACK of the tiger 50% of the time they aren't really good for direct combat with armor. There is only 2 situations where a smart soviet player will even attempt a ram. Either they can not destroy the target with convetional means (which is often due to lacking AT options) or the target is well behind enemy lines where the ramming tank can be easily repaired at which point you have no one but yourself to blame for having a unsapported tank so far away from your troops.

so what is it you are exactly do you want add that will add more "skill" to this ability?

Please read the post quoted above. If you did, you would find that I explained excactly what I wanted to be implemented to improve the ram ability.

Skill to pull off? Have you ever used ram?

Again, read the abovementioned post and you will find that I obviously have.

Feel free to comment on my suggestion, or give us your suggestions. I see a lot of people going all defensive, and I dont think it benefits any of us.

Please read the post quoted above. If you did, you would find that I explained excactly what I wanted to be implemented to improve the ram ability.



Again, read the abovementioned post and you will find that I obviously have.

Feel free to comment on my suggestion, or give us your suggestions. I see a lot of people going all defensive, and I dont think it benefits any of us.

There needs no adjustment to Ram it has already been adjusted and is fine. Hit panzer tactician smoke it WILL break ram even in process. So will Faust. Tiger isn't meant to be an attack move/win unit. L2p

There needs no adjustment to Ram it has already been adjusted and is fine. Hit panzer tactician smoke it WILL break ram even in process. So will Faust. Tiger isn't meant to be an attack move/win unit. L2p

That is of course your oppinion. I dont think ram is a good ability and think it should be reworked regardless of balance, wich I havent critisized at all.

Now, why is it that hard for you, and others like you, to discuss certain aspects of the game without working yourselves up and getting all angry? This "shut upp, L2p"-attitude strikes me as kind of absurd. Its a discussion regarding aspect of a game, nothing to get all worked upp about.

Here's an idea, get rid of blitz and we can talk about getting rid of ram. Two equally ridiculous abilities I think.

Thats fine, if German tanks with bigger or equal caliber guns don't get out-ranged by Sovs just because and not because it made sense.

^This

t34s 85 in t3 means no ability to fight tanks as german until t4,and by the first panther several t34s will already be waiting.If stugs werent such pos's that could be feasible.

t34s 85 in t3 means no ability to fight tanks as german until t4,and by the first panther several t34s will already be waiting.If stugs werent such pos's that could be feasible.

T34/85 is pretty equal to P4.
One got more health for one shot, other got much more armor and mobility.
P4 also have bit better DPS then 34/85.
And last time I've seen, T2 was full of AT stuff.

Soooo, use combined arms? Or do you think this should apply only to soviets, while endless waves of G43 grenadiers and P4s a-move through the map?

Oh man imagine the outcry if they actually did give Soviet T-34/76 gun upgrade and get rid of ram completely.
As the old saying goes: "be careful what you wish for - it might come true"

t34s 85 in t3 means no ability to fight tanks as german until t4,and by the first panther several t34s will already be waiting.If stugs werent such pos's that could be feasible.

ROFL! Thats EXACTLY what Soviet T3 has to deal with now. How about using the Soviet tactic of having to use two slightly cheaper tanks to take on a better and more expensive one? I mean thats what has to happen in the current balance model on the soviet side.(85 fuel vs 115 fuel)

@OP

Ram used to work 100% of the time. It has now been balanced and has does not work 100% of the time and can be cancelled as has been explained.

Most of the Soviet player would have no problem with ram being completely removed and replaced with T34/85 upgrade or build-able out of T3.

Both of these topics have been discussed since beta.

But Relic really wants the Soviet to be stuck with the T34/76 with the ram mechanic. They also nerfed it to the point where its a huge risk to attempt and quite often ends in the T34/76 loss. It only works against overextended German players period.

A tank that is on equal footing to the P4 (T34/85) is the overwhelming preference.

It only works against overextended German players period.

Here's the thing though, sometimes just because of RNG, it punishes a player who did not overextend their tank, and that is wrong. Ram is too random. It is a poorly designed ability flawed at its core and should be removed.

Of course I understand that Soviets would need something to help T3 take on Ost tanks, and it should get it. I don't know if an upgrade to the 85 would be answer, it would need to be checked by the balance team. However, I fully agree that any change to ram should result in a buff to Soviet AT. Forcing Soviet players to rely on 76 and AT guns is not a good idea.

This is by far the most obnoxious thread I have read in a long, long time.

I'm not even going to bother investing time to write an opinion on here as it is obvious that the only person who's going to win that debate will be the trollololol's.

Give soviets dedicated AT infantry in t3!! Something that is on par with pgrens, or airborne/rangers/piats from vcoh, not this guards peashooter crap. Then we can remove ram (although its fun) to silence all the crying and also solve the panther issue at the same time while still allowing relic to use the t34/85s as callins!! Can you say win win win?

Or better yet add dedicated AT infantry for Soviets as mentioned above and keep ram

That is of course your oppinion. I dont think ram is a good ability and think it should be reworked regardless of balance, wich I havent critisized at all.

Now, why is it that hard for you, and others like you, to discuss certain aspects of the game without working yourselves up and getting all angry? This "shut upp, L2p"-attitude strikes me as kind of absurd. Its a discussion regarding aspect of a game, nothing to get all worked upp about.

Because you are mentioning one single thing out of game full of gimmicky abilities, units and call-ins.

Then you are having biased opinion, and giving example that suits only your biased opinion

You make ram look like 'i win ability' that there is no defense against, when it isn't so.

FYI, others play against and use Ram. It's affected by RNG in both directions, sometimes it hurts Soviet Player sometimes it hurts German player.

I hate Ram, and a lot of other people that are arguing with you and other biased opinions are not very happy with Ram ability.

Yet here I am arguing with you about Ram. That should be a clue for you

You are not objective in your analysis and offer absolutely no alternative or insight into what would happen if this annoying ability is removed without adequate nerfs to units you love or replacing it with something that is capable of performing the same thing.

Ram is specifically designed to give Soviet army weapon against German 'heavies' as you called them, not to ram halftracks or stugs
Most people aren't stupid enough to stand in front of the 2 Su85's and Zis gun for 5 minutes with their Tiger or Panther.
Most people support their Panthers and Tigers and it is very hard to kill them with the ram, let alone trying to button them down for 5 minutes with rifles while they are supported by their own 'German combined arms'(yes that exist as well)

Thats fine, if German tanks with bigger or equal caliber guns don't get out-ranged by Sovs just because and not because it made sense.

Damn, I can't think of any German unit that might do a similar thing to the obviously implied SU-85... Oh wait, there's the StuG... Panther... oh and the uncounterable Elefant. Remember, the SU-85 is a tank destroyer with a hullmounted gun and terrible manoeuvrability. Range is the only thing it has. Sure, it out ranges 2 of the tanks I mentioned, but don't tell me Soviets aren't in a similar position with all their turreted tanks? (none of which have any range bonuses (as opposed to the Panther)).

Anyway, what larger calibre guns? The largest tank gun the Germans have is the 88mm. (the Brummbar is an exception but that short barrelled howitzer gun that it mounts is hardly an equivalent to the ML-20 on the ISU.) The gun on the SU-85 is (obviously) 85mm, that's hardly much of a difference. Meanwhile the Panther mounts a gun of inferior calibre to the 85mm and still outranges the T-34-85, what gives.

Anyway, Calibre isn't the primary factor in determining muzzle velocity and range. It's projectile weight, size and the length of the barrel. An APDS shot is effectively a 2 pounder shell (think something smaller than a T-70's shot) which is made to take the bore of a larger gun whilst still being much lighter, once fired, the things that make it fit the calibre of the gun drop away (hence discarding sabot) and the additional speed of the lighter shell makes it penetrate better. Calibre only comes into effective once the shell hits the tank. A 152mm shell from the ISU doesn't need to penetrate as the effect of the explosion would kill everyone inside the tank from concussion or metal splinters. Meanwhile the 2pndr shot from a tetrarch in vCoH would need to hit something pretty important to do anything, if it penetrated (this was improved by the little-john adapter)