PPSH x3 Aftermath Update
27 Feb 2014, 20:33 PM
#161
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
G43 should not drop because special snowflake.
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27 Feb 2014, 20:46 PM
#162
Posts: 194
it's fun. Doesn't do much, but at least its cheap.
Member of Company of Heroes : Eastern Front Modding team
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27 Feb 2014, 21:45 PM
#163
Posts: 978
This game isn´t consistent.
You either are consistent or not.
No double standards.
Either you agree to both dropping, or none.
And the only balance issue ppsh caused is to shake out german players from the delusion that no matter what, conscripts aren't a threat.
PPSh is still ONLY close range upgrade and still have less dps then LMG.
We had for almost half year single player ppsh that never was an issue and was MUCH STRONGER then current tripple one, that alone gives ppsh QQ absolutely 0 rational base.
- 50 range StuG - 60 range SU85... reason: "The one is an Assault gun used as a tank destroyer". I call that bullshit since the StuG was much better and basically a tank hunter late in the war.
- 2 men snipers vs 1 man sniper
etc. etc.
I just meant that the Ppsh should definitely be dropped, because its a huge balance issue. That one dude made it sound like only G43s should drop.
27 Feb 2014, 22:00 PM
#164
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This game isn´t consistent.
- 50 range StuG - 60 range SU85... reason: "The one is an Assault gun used as a tank destroyer". I call that bullshit since the StuG was much better and basically a tank hunter late in the war.
- 2 men snipers vs 1 man sniper
etc. etc.
I just meant that the Ppsh should definitely be dropped, because its a huge balance issue. That one dude made it sound like only G43s should drop.
You're confusing consistent mechanics with asymmetrical balance my friend.
100% of infantry weapons that need entity to stand still drop.
100% of infantry weapons that allow entity to fire on the move don't drop.
That is consistency.
You've described asymmetrical balance.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Feb 2014, 22:01 PM
#165
Posts: 194
This game isn´t consistent.
- 50 range StuG - 60 range SU85... reason: "The one is an Assault gun used as a tank destroyer". I call that bullshit since the StuG was much better and basically a tank hunter late in the war.
- 2 men snipers vs 1 man sniper
etc. etc.
I just meant that the Ppsh should definitely be dropped, because its a huge balance issue. That one dude made it sound like only G43s should drop.
I disagree. Either all doctrinal upgrades should drop or none should. Otherwise you're just cherry picking particular ones you like more.
PPSh are also not a huge problem. Are they useful? Yep. Overpowered? No.
28 Feb 2014, 00:14 AM
#166
Posts: 4928
You either are consistent or not.
No double standards.
Either you agree to both dropping, or none.
This is not how you balance a game. This is just logical fallacy because you don't want your precious Soviets to get nerfed without seeing the Germans get hit twice as hard.
And by the way, one is a 30mun rifle, one is a 10m SMG. One G43 costs as much as an entire Assault Package.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
28 Feb 2014, 01:34 AM
#167
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
This is not how you balance a game. This is just logical fallacy because you don't want your precious Soviets to get nerfed without seeing the Germans get hit twice as hard.
And by the way, one is a 30mun rifle, one is a 10m SMG. One G43 costs as much as an entire Assault Package.
It hits the germans twice as hard because the G43 package is twice as good. And this is the exact reason why they should stop complaining.
28 Feb 2014, 01:37 AM
#168
Posts: 2779
PPSH drop could be quite historic accurate, because they said PPSH are better than their MP40s, so they are in game.
28 Feb 2014, 01:53 AM
#169
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
-Either you make both drop or none. Plus, this wouldnt conflict with Shocks PPSHs ?
STATS HOES SIGNAL!
Werent old 2x PPSH behaviour way different in comparison to todays PPSHs?
Old PPSH were more effective at close range when they were still, and nowadays PPSHs are more effective while on the move?
Also, people "didnt" complain cause LMG was also OP. Both have being nerf.
-What about a 60-70 muni PPSH but with a DPS buff or 6 PPSHs. Price increase wouldnt allow you to field every squad with them. 6 PPSHs would make every single con death count.
-45 muni PPSH x3 with the SP ability of supression.
PPSH are "fine". I´m just trying to see if there is a way to make them less nobrainer or with a cost opportunity choice.
STATS HOES SIGNAL!
Werent old 2x PPSH behaviour way different in comparison to todays PPSHs?
Old PPSH were more effective at close range when they were still, and nowadays PPSHs are more effective while on the move?
Also, people "didnt" complain cause LMG was also OP. Both have being nerf.
-What about a 60-70 muni PPSH but with a DPS buff or 6 PPSHs. Price increase wouldnt allow you to field every squad with them. 6 PPSHs would make every single con death count.
-45 muni PPSH x3 with the SP ability of supression.
PPSH are "fine". I´m just trying to see if there is a way to make them less nobrainer or with a cost opportunity choice.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
28 Feb 2014, 03:39 AM
#170
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
G43 should not drop because special snowflake.
Why PPSh should also fall? They are also special snowflake
I disagree. Either all doctrinal upgrades should drop or none should. Otherwise you're just cherry picking particular ones you like more.
PPSh are also not a huge problem. Are they useful? Yep. Overpowered? No.
totally agree
28 Feb 2014, 04:02 AM
#171
Posts: 134
You either are consistent or not.
No double standards.
Either you agree to both dropping, or none.
And the only balance issue ppsh caused is to shake out german players from the delusion that no matter what, conscripts aren't a threat.
PPSh is still ONLY close range upgrade and still have less dps then LMG.
We had for almost half year single player ppsh that never was an issue and was MUCH STRONGER then current tripple one, that alone gives ppsh QQ absolutely 0 rational base.
You do realize that the only reason the hoards of German whiners is out on force is because they got exactly what they wanted with shocks/guards. Now something else is op? Weird. It feels like no matter what Soviets use as a starting build order is "op" these days. Its rediculous! Shocks? Op. Guards? Op. Clown cars? Op. Snipers. Clearly op? Cons? Op! Wtf?? I bet if they go ahead and nerf cons/snipers/clown cars suddenly penals will be op.
If someone starts a serious thread about bringing shocks/guards back to 1 cp to stop the con spam I may die of laughter
28 Feb 2014, 04:05 AM
#172
Posts: 134
Also, if ppshs should drop so should the g's. How is that anything but fair and balanced? If that's not even I don't know what is.
28 Feb 2014, 09:31 AM
#173
Posts: 525
You do realize that the only reason the hoards of German whiners is out on force is because they got exactly what they wanted with shocks/guards. Now something else is op? Weird. It feels like no matter what Soviets use as a starting build order is "op" these days. Its rediculous! Shocks? Op. Guards? Op. Clown cars? Op. Snipers. Clearly op? Cons? Op! Wtf?? I bet if they go ahead and nerf cons/snipers/clown cars suddenly penals will be op.
If someone starts a serious thread about bringing shocks/guards back to 1 cp to stop the con spam I may die of laughter
Dude you seriously deserve a medal
....+9000 MVGame
28 Feb 2014, 10:51 AM
#174
Posts: 1439
PPSH are fine as they are right now. Maybe slight price increase but nothing more.
PPSHs should drop but G43 shouldn't? It's not about balance any more is it?
Get a Sniper and watch them fall. I was forced into Sniper heavy strtas recently and I am amazed of what German one can do.
PPSHs should drop but G43 shouldn't? It's not about balance any more is it?
Get a Sniper and watch them fall. I was forced into Sniper heavy strtas recently and I am amazed of what German one can do.
28 Feb 2014, 18:44 PM
#175
Posts: 76
You're confusing consistent mechanics with asymmetrical balance my friend.
100% of infantry weapons that need entity to stand still drop.
100% of infantry weapons that allow entity to fire on the move don't drop.
That is consistency.
You've described asymmetrical balance.
That's very astute and seems to be overlooked in this forum topic... people want to just scream what they want to scream?
28 Feb 2014, 22:09 PM
#176
Posts: 148
Insert "Soviet Whiners" for "German Whiners" and "Tiger Ace" for "Shock/Guards" and "PPSH" for "Panther"
These boards are such a whinefest. And Relic reacts to it too willingly.
These boards are such a whinefest. And Relic reacts to it too willingly.
You do realize that the only reason the hoards of German whiners is out on force is because they got exactly what they wanted with shocks/guards. Now something else is op? Weird. It feels like no matter what Soviets use as a starting build order is "op" these days. Its rediculous! Shocks? Op. Guards? Op. Clown cars? Op. Snipers. Clearly op? Cons? Op! Wtf?? I bet if they go ahead and nerf cons/snipers/clown cars suddenly penals will be op.
If someone starts a serious thread about bringing shocks/guards back to 1 cp to stop the con spam I may die of laughter
3 Apr 2014, 21:04 PM
#177
Posts: 680
How are these after the march update?
3 Apr 2014, 21:24 PM
#178
Posts: 525
How are these after the march update?
All your models die to vannila Grens before you get in range to use them...if you have someone you hate,recommend him PPsh Conscript spam
3 Apr 2014, 21:29 PM
#179
Posts: 4928
PPSh Conscripts are good, they're not OP as they were, but they improve on the weakness of Conscripts. Without PPSh, closing in is still a toss up, even if you ambush Grenadiers at close range, and fighting at long range you will lose anyway. With PPSh, you're strong enough that if you ambush Panzergrenadiers, you may win, play smart and you can beat Grenadiers too, Pioneers will think twice before fighting you now.
Overall PPSh are almost a must for me now. While you do lose long range ability, but you never really had it in the first place, so the difference is negligible. 40 Mun price is pretty fair for what they do.
Overall PPSh are almost a must for me now. While you do lose long range ability, but you never really had it in the first place, so the difference is negligible. 40 Mun price is pretty fair for what they do.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Apr 2014, 21:32 PM
#180
Posts: 449
PPSH is now more of a unit specialization and less of a no-brainer upgrade. Now you're trading off medium and far dps for much greater close range dps.
It's a good change because it doesn't take away the role of un-upgraded cons but opens up more options.
Can't say the same for LMGs and G43s. You can never get enough of them.
It's a good change because it doesn't take away the role of un-upgraded cons but opens up more options.
Can't say the same for LMGs and G43s. You can never get enough of them.
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