That RNG that COH2 has but not vCOH....and the Coversystem
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Get infantry in front of the tiger to spot those T-34s.
Then the ramming T-34 will crush all the Grens into ham
Posts: 44
Then the ramming T-34 will crush all the Grens into ham
Ive lost a pak to a ramming t34 than still got a successful ram off on my tiger =/
Posts: 208
...or make it more related to where you hit the tank - side, rear, front.
Yes yes yes.
And more importantly have it dependent upon the health of the target vehicle
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simplest explanation.
In COH days if you try to cross road with rifles to attack volks in green cover, you will lose that battle 100% of the time. You may lose 1 or none volks.
In COH 2 if you walk over red cover road with Cons to attack Grens in gren cover, you can either get wiped out or cross the road without any casualties, get to green cover and wipe the Gren squad.
Depending how the RNG God likes you.
Basically in COH you could be quite certain of outcome of engagement while in COH2 margin is blurry and a lot more unpredictable. Making it quite hard to make good decisions.
For example, in early game if you invest ammo for eng flame. Often it will explode in your face and wipe your squad from engagement with basic inf unit or other eng. Just because they scored a crit shot by chance.
Thats what people complain about. Way to much is decided by luck instead of skill and good decision making.
Hope that helps
That was what I meant with reliability of units and engagements. Thanks for stating it this clear
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Here's a fun example of RNG in tank battles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzoYxFEf8gc
You call it rng god, i call it reliability, same old, same old.
The gambling makes strategic decisions useless, and makes a pro player looses so easily from a newb .
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Ram simply should not affect Tigers, a 700 manpower and 200 Fuel tank lost to a tin can with an engine. It's like having half a grenadier squad kill a shock squad.
Can you show us a replay where full hp T34 kills with a ram full hp Tiger so your comparison have any valid basis and I can call off bulky guys in white uniforms with special jacket with too long sleeves which I've ordered for you?
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Can you show us a replay where full hp T34 kills with a ram full hp Tiger so your comparison have any valid basis and I can call off bulky guys in white uniforms with special jacket with too long sleeves which I've ordered for you?
English please?
I cannot understand what are you talking about.
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And a "new born" Tiger just got front rammed to useless in the first 20s.
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Ram is completely broken at this point in time. It fails to give the player performing it any control over its success (or just about), it is contrary to the rest of the COH unit preservation strategy, and it is just frustrating for both players. Throw in the chance to get immobilize crits and this thing just makes the game unfun.
Problem is if you remove or retool ram you are going to need to buff the T34 or allow soviets a chance to get better AT since they will not be able to deal with high level tanks.
Grens in front of tanks to stop rarely works in practice because of lag input and faust fire time which means they don't faust until after the ram is complete. Useless.
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Posts: 194
Increase Ram penetration on back, Reduce Ram penetration on front. Fix'd
That doesn't fix anything at all. It would still be a complete coin flip on a rarely occurring, game changing action that doesn't allow either player to factor in skill. A t34 could still take out a tiger on the first try or an army of t34s could still all fail.
Only valid options imo really are:
1.) Change ram to 100% chance to crew shock both tanks + some minorish damage, based on size of the rammed thing.
2.) Give t34/76 a munitions based upgrade to t34/85. Presto, suddenly they're more AT capable and scale better into the late game. This paradigm worked extremely well in CoH1 with Shermans.
Posts: 44
1.) Change ram to 100% chance to crew shock both tanks + some minorish damage, based on size of the rammed thing.
2.) Give t34/76 a munitions based upgrade to t34/85. Presto, suddenly they're more AT capable and scale better into the late game. This paradigm worked extremely well in CoH1 with Shermans.
+1!
Posts: 976
Mines and ram success are the biggest culprits in my opinion.
Mines are just aggravating. The AOE effect obviously does more damage to clumped units but there's no way to control squad formation so you can't avoid it as far as I know. Maybe someone will find a way to shift right click moves when walking through narrow spaces to avoid clumping (I may today a bit). The AOE is basically messed up from what I read somewhere, it should not do as much damage to more distant members of a squad as what it's doing. Compared to vCOH, the effect is much less predictable. In vCOH a full-health squad might lose some members and a significant amount of health, but would never just get wiped.
Ram is a game-breaking failure of design given the RNG probabilities Relic have built in to it. Disabling a piece of expensive late-game armor is too big of a strategic event to be left to an RNG roll given the number of times it will occur in game. The Tiger Ace simply brought this problem to the forefront where everyone could clearly see that many games in COH2 are won or lost on dice rolls. As Inverse said in another thread, it's not the RNG, it's the scale of the event the RNG is affecting. Many small RNG events contribute to the game's complexity and actually do raise the skillcap, but huge events with major consequences that will not re-occur often enough for the RNG to affect both players equally are completely detrimental.
For those who don't know statistics a brief explanation - with enough occurrences of an event determined by probability in game you approach the programmed probability. But given one or two events in game, you will not hit it, just as flipping a coin only 6x will not always result in 50% heads/tails. You need a really large number of events for the actual game to reflect the programmed probabilities of the event occurring.
You can get the probability on your side though - you need about 3 well-microed T34s to have above a 75% chance of disabling a Tiger (if I remember someone's math from beta forums correctly). That's why the best counter isn't AT guns or SU-85s, but ramming. But that's still, in my opinion, an unacceptable level of RNG for such a major game event.
Exactly.
This is one of the major flaw in COH2. (It need to be tone down a lot)
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In COH days if you try to cross road with rifles to attack volks in green cover, you will lose that battle 100% of the time. You may lose 1 or none volks.
In COH 2 if you walk over red cover road with Cons to attack Grens in gren cover, you can either get wiped out or cross the road without any casualties, get to green cover and wipe the Gren squad.
Depending how the RNG God likes you.
Not entirely true. You're more likely to make it without losing any men in CoH2, RNG decides the fight whether you charged over red cover or not because of how equal Grens vs Cons are, and Gren armour itself being RNG.
The real reason you lose men charging in CoH1 and not in CoH2 is health differences. In CoH1, Riflemen had 55 health. In CoH2, Conscripts (and just about every unit in the game) have 80.
1.) Change ram to 100% chance to crew shock both tanks + some minorish damage, based on size of the rammed thing.
2.) Give t34/76 a munitions based upgrade to t34/85. Presto, suddenly they're more AT capable and scale better into the late game. This paradigm worked extremely well in CoH1 with Shermans.
I would rather the T-34/85 come from T3, either costing more or requiring an unlock upgrade (like what PE has to do to get their Panzer IV).
Agree on the ram = stun though.
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Not entirely true. You're more likely to make it without losing any men in CoH2, RNG decides the fight whether you charged over red cover or not because of how equal Grens vs Cons are, and Gren armour itself being RNG.
The real reason you lose men charging in CoH1 and not in CoH2 is health differences. In CoH1, Riflemen had 55 health. In CoH2, Conscripts (and just about every unit in the game) have 80.
I was giving, as you conveniently left out, 'simplest explanation' to someone who didn't understand what do people mean when they complain about RNG in COH2 that wasn't there in COH1.
And I ended it with further explanation: 'Basically in COH you could be quite certain of outcome of engagement while in COH2 margin is blurry and a lot more unpredictable. Making it quite hard to make good decisions. "
Which you again conveniently left out.
Some guy, twisted and chopped my post to prove me wrong.
Ok, I can live with that. But at least when you do things like that, try not to shoot yourself in the leg by being inaccurate
Thanks
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