Sniper Balance

Because then it would stop being a sniper duuh.
Snipers don't deal any damage, they inflict instant death critical.

And yes, you already sacrifice damage output for survivability, because soviet sniper needs LONGER time to kill 4 grens then german one needs for 6 scripts.

Seriously, it seems like maybe every 4th person in this forum even play the game.

Take a break, I know the president pays you for being a ....meh. but there is life outside this game, maybe you're just too pissed off or had a bad day, I will comment everytime I want or everything I want in these PUBLIC FORUMS.

At least you do the function of Troll very good. *Claps*

On topic: relax, It was an idea, but seeing sniper + guards just breaks early game too much.

instead of trying to adjust the hell out of the soviet sniper, drop the second model on it and give it the same armor/cloaking as the ost sniper (but not fire rate to compensate for the smaller ost squad sizes). Fix the bug where you cant counter-snipe the last sniper model in the M3 and problem solved.

instead of trying to adjust the hell out of the soviet sniper, drop the second model on it and give it the same armor/cloaking as the ost sniper (but not fire rate to compensate for the smaller ost squad sizes). Fix the bug where you cant counter-snipe the last sniper model in the M3 and problem solved.

Soviet sniper is designed so that, it was better then OST one. Soviet need build T1 and you dont have mortars, MG and AT gun.

PS: guards come after 3CP. Still problem for someone?

Take a break, I know the president pays you for being a ....meh. but there is life outside this game, maybe you're just too pissed off or had a bad day, I will comment everytime I want or everything I want in these PUBLIC FORUMS.

At least you do the function of Troll very good. *Claps*

Soviet Nullist detected.

Sniper balance? There is none. /thread

But seriously, whenever I loose a game, even though there may be smaller imbalances, I generally feel it was my fault, I know what I could have done better. And such losses are OK, they feel fair, I don`t feel bad about them because they mean improvement and improving is part of the fun.

There is one major exception though and that is snipers. Whenever I loose to sniper strats it doesn`t feel fair at all, it`s "Oh the enemy went for snipers and I didn`t have enough luck so it`s a default loss."

Such games are meaningless. Since there is no real counter to snipers there is no real lesson/improvememnt to be had from such losses (for nitpickers: obviously you get better in general the more you play). And that sucks camel balls.

BTW Before I get accused of just qq-ing and not being constructive about it - I created a thread called "SSSSS" where I suggested various possible solutions (and I am not gonna copypasta).

German sniper die easy

Soviet not

Does anyone even read the responses people give on exactly how to deal with soviet snipers? Or do you just skip those so that you can continue whining aimlessly in hopes of getting something nerfed like how it worked for shocks and guards?

Soviet sniper has less "DMG output" than the axis sniper based simply on the rate of fire difference. What more do you want? Do you really want it to take two shots to kill a green/pgren? Because at that point they are useless ... But I guess maybe then you guys would be happy.

Soviet snipers come in pairs which makes then more survive able on paper. BUT the German sniper has higher armor and recloaks much faster. Not to mention when he snipes cons they tend to get mini surpressed which does not happen to grens. So is the soviet sniper really more surviveable? Against a poorly played German sniper yes. But other other than that it's actually closer than you might think. I have not once had a script squad walk up to my sniper while being sniped and successfully kill it. However I can't say the same for grens. Sov sniper lies down to shoot (other model usually humps the one lying down). Gren squad walks up loses one guy, maybe two. Riflenade snipers and they die (since they are prone they usually cant move in time to avoid the riflenade)

Also Idk who pointed it out but for sovs to go snipers they lose mortars, maxims, and zis whereas Germans do not. That alone should warrant for a Soviet sniper buff

TLR version: snipers are fine the way they are. Learn how to counter instead of crying for a nerf.

Does anyone even read the responses people give on exactly how to deal with soviet snipers? Or do you just skip those so that you can continue whining aimlessly in hopes of getting something nerfed like how it worked for shocks and guards?

Soviet sniper has less "DMG output" than the axis sniper based simply on the rate of fire difference. What more do you want? Do you really want it to take two shots to kill a green/pgren? Because at that point they are useless ... But I guess maybe then you guys would be happy.

Soviet snipers come in pairs which makes then more survive able on paper. BUT the German sniper has higher armor and recloaks much faster. Not to mention when he snipes cons they tend to get mini surpressed which does not happen to grens. So is the soviet sniper really more surviveable? Against a poorly played German sniper yes. But other other than that it's actually closer than you might think. I have not once had a script squad walk up to my sniper while being sniped and successfully kill it. However I can't say the same for grens. Sov sniper lies down to shoot (other model usually humps the one lying down). Gren squad walks up loses one guy, maybe two. Riflenade snipers and they die (since they are prone they usually cant move in time to avoid the riflenade)

Also Idk who pointed it out but for sovs to go snipers they lose mortars, maxims, and zis whereas Germans do not. That alone should warrant for a Soviet sniper buff

TLR version: snipers are fine the way they are. Learn how to counter instead of crying for a nerf.

While I do agree some suggestions on here are poor, I understand peoples frustrations when playing against Sovjet snipers. There is no real hard counter to the soviet snipers, everything is relying on chance and poor soviet play. If your dumb enough to get your soviet sniper rifle naded, you totally deserved to lose it. Not only did you not hear the soviet sniper scream something about a grenade, but you also missed the gren model readying for the nade AND the sound.

How do you balance it? I have no idea. THe survivability of the German sniper is terrible, but makes up for it with fast cloaking and faster fire rate. As I said before that soviet fanboys obviously ignored was that there are many bugs with the German sniper (vet 1 ability, weird AI when told to attack, attack-move complete fail). The soviet sniper can hide in a scout car and get to vet 2 with ease, he has great survivability, and an even better vet 1. WHat makes the soviet sniper so frustrating is once he scores a shot on a gren, pgren squad, that squad is now down to 75% of its combat effectiveness. Get 2 snipers into the mix, german down to 50% in seconds. Ouch! Who needs maxims and mortars when you can just send snipers in? And you can always get a 120mm mortar that's doctrinal and its included with several commanders.

Sprint for the sniper is definitely too cheap, I think it needs to be priced similar to the vet1 blitzkrieg ability. It greatly improves the survivability when caught in the open.
Honestly I wouldnt not touch the soviet sniper any further. Instead I would add another man to a gren squad (but reduce dps and hp to its current level) and make the german sniper more consistent by making him an 80hp man with 1 armor.

While I do agree some suggestions on here are poor, I understand peoples frustrations when playing against Sovjet snipers. There is no real hard counter to the soviet snipers, everything is relying on chance and poor soviet play. If your dumb enough to get your soviet sniper rifle naded, you totally deserved to lose it. Not only did you not hear the soviet sniper scream something about a grenade, but you also missed the gren model readying for the nade AND the sound.

How do you balance it? I have no idea. THe survivability of the German sniper is terrible, but makes up for it with fast cloaking and faster fire rate. As I said before that soviet fanboys obviously ignored was that there are many bugs with the German sniper (vet 1 ability, weird AI when told to attack, attack-move complete fail). The soviet sniper can hide in a scout car and get to vet 2 with ease, he has great survivability, and an even better vet 1. WHat makes the soviet sniper so frustrating is once he scores a shot on a gren, pgren squad, that squad is now down to 75% of its combat effectiveness. Get 2 snipers into the mix, german down to 50% in seconds. Ouch! Who needs maxims and mortars when you can just send snipers in? And you can always get a 120mm mortar that's doctrinal and its included with several commanders.

If your sniper is prone you will have a hard time avoiding the riflenade. Even if you hear it (at least that's what I have found)

Sprint for the sniper is definitely too cheap, I think it needs to be priced similar to the vet1 blitzkrieg ability. It greatly improves the survivability when caught in the open.
Honestly I wouldnt not touch the soviet sniper any further. Instead I would add another man to a gren squad (but reduce dps and hp to its current level) and make the german sniper more consistent by making him an 80hp man with 1 armor.

Now I've seen everything. Comparing SNIPER to a TANK.
It might be a surprise for you, but sniper team is not a tank.
All sprint abilities for single infantry squad cost 10muni.

Don't get me wrong, I usually don't have problems playing against snipers if my opponent has equal skill and from my experience German Sniper is a beast when used correctly, that said however I lost few games recently to a cheesy Soviet Sniper spam supported by Guards and Cons and despite my tryes I couldn't do much against it.
I think I should have gone for Sniper as well and cause MP bleed somewhere else but that's only a theory. I'll check it sooner or later though.

Now I've seen everything. Comparing SNIPER to a TANK.
It might be a surprise for you, but sniper team is not a tank.
All sprint abilities for single infantry squad cost 10muni.

Thank you captain obvious. however sprint on the sniper is far more powerful on the sniper then on a script squad

1v1: you have the edge of capping the map (even then i found utterly annoying)
3v3+: you have the edge of numbers (unless you play several 1v1)

2v2: is where i found snipers the most annoying thing on the earth. (And thats why im a frequent user )

It´s basically a Soviet mistake losing the snipers early/mid game. Cons/Maxims covers you while u do the mp damage with snipers.

Osstruppen (early game), MHT (pray for the hit or the crit with flames), G43 gren spam (barely) and Close air supperiority (mid/late) are the only things i saw as direct counters to sniper spam.

TL;DR version: snipers are fine the way they are. Learn how to counter instead of crying for a nerf.

Since you talk, look at this.
Thing is, counters for sniper are heavy countered by the time they arrive. I think both factions needs scout/light pure MP vehicles. M3 n AC fulfill other roles (harass).
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Take into account its a 2v2 AND im gonna focus on denying muni.

A general Soviet BO vs German BO.
My partner will go T2, Con PPSH heavy or mix of both, Shocks. Choose your drug.
German BO is mostly the same and doesnt matter (unless Osstruppen). Cheesy Elite PGs are hard counter by early push n snipers, same with AssG (snipers+M3s). This just leaves heavy T1 or T1+T2 variants.

I´ll say 4 T1 units is the fastest way to get an AC (maybe double pio into 3 T1 units)

Show Spoiler

Soviet is limited by xp on which an agressive play will get faster to 2CP while also slowing down the german. The gap on which the AC is effective is way too short.

What i feel is that the Soviets have the tools to be always 1 step ahead of the germans from minute 0.
Germans have the ways to secure a position (victory) once they take advantage of a soviet mistake or have great options for mid-late game.


TL;DR: i dont see how you can get your snipers/scoutcars kill if you dont make a micro mistake.

You really can't lose a Soviet sniper unless you make a mistake or get unlucky (random mortar). 2 Snipers is the worst though, because while expensive, it's an instant force-retreat on anything they meet, except Osttruppen and Vehicles, which are both very easy to counter provided you have the right units to support. Anything beats Osttruppen, Conscripts or Guards can deal with AC's. Plus if you have 2 Snipers running about, the German cannot get Panzergrenadiers, unless he wants to spend 80 manpower reinforcing them so they can get shot again.

Also like said above, rifle grenades are easy to avoid, I've never killed a sniper with them because the other player actually pays attention to his sniper and moves it when it's about to come. If you lose a sniper to a rifle grenade, it's entirely your fault, don't blame the game..

I take everything I said back. 2 Sniper + Guard combo is unbeatable by anything German can ship early game. Survivability on this unit is retarded while last game I lost my Sniper to mortar shell that was meters a way. It looked like he died from wind this blast caused.

I've lost every game when this combo was present. In 2v2 is even worse. I run out of options how to beat this.

I give up on this thread. Soviet snipers are better in some ways than axis snipers. This is clearly op as they should be vastly inferior to the German counterpart like every other unit. How dare they get out of line!

I propose we require 369.2 cps before the unit is trainable, have it explode upon entering a clown car killing the sniper, the clown car and every communist unit on the field, and while we're at it remove their weapons and replace them with sticks. That should be good

All kidding aside snipers are fine the way the are. They are different but thats okay. If anything is missing its motorcycles jeeps and silly pe battleboats please let the sniper thing rest

No need to go mad, hatter. There's a difference between something being strong, and being virtually invincible. 2 sniper strat, or sniper + guards is very difficult to counter. Virtually the only way to do so is to use a mortar and pray to the RNG gods that it gets a squadwipe on the enemy sniper team.

Hatter should never faced 3-4 Soviet sniperspam in 2v2.

there is almost no counter unless RNG god love your mortar.

- 221, even success flanking the snipers, they are just too fragile and don't kill the sniper fast enough, why the fuck it can't withstand base MG?
- G43 spam, good luck hunting 3 sniper teams
- countersnipe, maybe you can kill one, the Mosin Nagant bullets return in no time
- mortar, most making sense stuff, but need more praying to RNG God

I take everything I said back. 2 Sniper + Guard combo is unbeatable by anything German can ship early game. Survivability on this unit is retarded while last game I lost my Sniper to mortar shell that was meters a way. It looked like he died from wind this blast caused.

I've lost every game when this combo was present. In 2v2 is even worse. I run out of options how to beat this.

hmmm maybe instand vet your sniper. I've watched the mTw stream yesterday and hansi killed with the vet sniper ability two sniper squads ^^
I'm trying to hide my grens and use rifle nades.