German Sniper Vulnerability

For the past while I've been experimenting with sniper first builds with some moderate success, though it also depends on the Soviets not getting T1 to counter-snipe him before he gets to vet 1.

While he can constantly backpedal/jump into cover away from danger to keep a constant manpower drain on the Soviets without taking manpower damage in return, I think his health is too low. From what I've heard he has 2.0 armour and 40hp, however, this would make his survivability very RNG dependant against small-arms. Sometimes he gets away during retreat/soft retreat/into cover unscathed, other times his health bar just disappears because someone gets good rolls against him and his armour fails. More than once I've had a lucky PPSH burst get him at max range when I thought I could jump to the next piece of cover/back-up, the resulting burst taking around 2/3rds of his hp from what I've seen.

Furthermore, this would make him incredibly vulnerable to any explosion/flame/AOE that comes near him. I've had him get killed on the very edge of a mortar explosion at full(Precision/120mm Maybe?). Regular infantry can stand in the incendiary barrages for a few seconds before catching on fire, long enough for a retreat but he just disappears if he even steps in it.

I honestly think he should have the same amount of hitpoints like any other infantry man even if it costs him his 2.0 armour so his survivability is a bit more consistent rather than praying that the next bullets doesn't take out 1/3rd of his life when he's running to the nearest piece of cover. He's already 360MP so he could at least not die/consistently take damage from the closest thing that grazes him.

If you have german sniper at ppsh range you have failed.

If you have german sniper at flamer range, you have failed so hard that its not even funny or lasted long enough to see KV-8, in which case he should pay for himself twice.

German sniper survivability is 100% dependent on your micro, the only RNG he should ever be exposed to is an odd lucky mortar round.

German sniper survivability is 100% dependent on your micro, the only RNG he should ever be exposed to is an odd lucky mortar round.

This is not entirely true.

A few times in the past I have had it where a few stray Mosin-nagant shots have nearly killed my sniper.

The best way to make sure this doesn't happen is have another unit in front of your sniper to absorb those shots

Even so, the random death to a nearby mortar is very likely for ost players, and not so for soviet snipers. When I play as soviet I love using snipers because I know I will have them all game. When I play as Ost I almost never go sniper because it is to RNG dependent whether he survives into the late game.

The Soviet sniper is already a soft counter to the Ost sniper (possibly even a hard counter, especially when in an armored car), why does the Ost sniper also feel very vulnerable to everything else?

Snipers are a flawed concept not fitting into the game (similar to Tiger Ace but in a different way). While other units do damage and can be countered, snipers insta-kill and there is no real counter, you have to pray for luck (mortar) or your opponent`s mistake to "counter" them.

This is a much bigger problem with soviet snipers as they are less susceptible to dying to RNG because of the 2 man squad (which also gives them the advantage in countersniping, which I wouldn`t consider to be countering btw, it`s building the same kind of unit).

Buffing snipers in any way would be detrimental to the gameplay. Both german and soviet. However I feel that the soviet sniper should definitely be nerfed/made doctrinal.

Even so, the random death to a nearby mortar is very likely for ost players, and not so for soviet snipers. When I play as soviet I love using snipers because I know I will have them all game. When I play as Ost I almost never go sniper because it is to RNG dependent whether he survives into the late game.

The Soviet sniper is already a soft counter to the Ost sniper (possibly even a hard counter, especially when in an armored car), why does the Ost sniper also feel very vulnerable to everything else?

I have never had a game where an Ost sniper made it past the 20 minute mark. You have to baby sit him at all times and when you start having a lot of units to micro he will end up dead meat.

This is a much bigger problem with soviet snipers as they are less susceptible to dying to RNG because of the 2 man squad (which also gives them the advantage in countersniping, which I wouldn`t consider to be countering btw, it`s building the same kind of unit)

2 man sniper squads should just not exist! If they had it so one man could only shoot the sniper and the other purely spotted this would be fine

2 man sniper squads should just not exist! If they had it so one man could only shoot the sniper and the other purely spotted this would be fine

I don`t like it either. As I said RNG is basically snipers` only weakness. And 2 man squad further mitigates this single weakness.

But I don`t think Relic would give up 2 man sniper squad so that`s why I proposed nerf/making them doctrinal.

Is it really failing when one simply wants the damage the German sniper takes to be a bit more consistent rather than the current he's at full or dead/near dead situation due to his 40hp and 2.0 armour? Yes, he would gain a boost in survivability against other weapons, but it'd also make small-arms more consistent against him. I'm pretty sure three conscripts at close-range should force him off, but apparently that's not always the case when the rounds don't do anything against his armour, long enough for the next shot and support to arrive when he's clearly in a position where he should be retreating.

Yeah, right now the health bar might as well not be there.

Sometimes, two or three lucky shots and he goes down, sometimes they get chased by scripts and even shocks and you see no real change in the health bar. It makes no sense.

Once again, more RNG that adds nothing to the game and just frustrates people.

Wm sniper need 1 armor with 80 hp. Pls. Relic, do it...

German sniper is great. Use them right, need some skill. His vet1 abillity is superior versus shocks.

Nothing here who said vet1 ability is not great, but the German sniper is now RNG dependant, some times if he have luck, the armor can save his life in close range vs a full 6 member ST, some times he can die in max range(35) from 3 Conscript rifle shoot, in 2 sec. That is not good, need change from 2.0 armor to 1.0, and 40 hp to 80 hp. NO buff, or nerf here, only a bit less RNG effect.

Nothing here who said vet1 ability is not great, but the German sniper is now RNG dependant, some times if he have luck, the armor can save his life in close range vs a full 6 member ST, some times he can die in max range(35) from 3 Conscript rifle shoot, in 2 sec. That is not good, need change from 2.0 armor to 1.0, and 40 hp to 80 hp. NO buff, or nerf here, only a bit less RNG effect.

Snipers on both sides are gambling and with more skill, more reward.

No, no... Sniper in RUS side with two member have a lots more chance survival abilty, vs countersnipe, AOE damage(mortar-arty-Flame), and with 2x40 =80hp vs small arms too. So SU sniper team not the same risk, than Ger Sniper.

No, no... Sniper in RUS side with two member have a lots more chance survival abilty, vs countersnipe, AOE damage(mortar-arty-Flame), and with 2x40 =80hp vs small arms too. So SU sniper team not the same risk, than Ger Sniper.

In more times i lost all Soviet sniper squad. One rifle grenade kill them all, mortar the same. And i think designers want soviets sniper team better then OST. The same ost mortar is better then soviet, but on 1vet soviet can use precision shot and win over OST mortar. With OST sniper dont make sniper war before you have 1vet. Have him back and cover with MG, grens and pak. Be patient and dont scout with sniper. Shot on Shocks troops and use on them 1vet ability. You can kill one shot 2-3 model with this.

Vet1 abiltiy is gambling to, some times kill 1 man and no shock effect, some times kill 3 member, and shock 3-full squad...

Snipers on both sides are gambling and with more skill, more reward.

Soviet Sniper isn't gambling. It has 1 armour and 40HP. The Ost Sniper has 2 armour and 40HP. The Ost Sniper is gambling because a dice roll decides every single bullet. Ost Sniper has a 50% chance to deflect most bullets, this means the dice-roll can work in or against your favour. You might fight an Ost Sniper that kills 4+ Conscripts at close range, forcing you to retreat. Or you might have an Ost Sniper who is killed instantly by one rifle volley from an Engineer Squad.

If the Ost Sniper had 1 armour and 80 health, the only change that would come would be consistency. The first rifle volley would be much less likely to be lethal, and the CQB Sniper near-wiping a Conscript Squad would be unheard of. The only side-effect is he'll gain resistance to flames and explosions, which would put him at average resistance with every other unit in the game except Sov Sniper and Osttruppen.

Mr.Someguy: +1

Soviet Sniper isn't gambling. It has 1 armour and 40HP. The Ost Sniper has 2 armour and 40HP. The Ost Sniper is gambling because a dice roll decides every single bullet. Ost Sniper has a 50% chance to deflect most bullets, this means the dice-roll can work in or against your favour. You might fight an Ost Sniper that kills 4+ Conscripts at close range, forcing you to retreat. Or you might have an Ost Sniper who is killed instantly by one rifle volley from an Engineer Squad.

If the Ost Sniper had 1 armour and 80 health, the only change that would come would be consistency. The first rifle volley would be much less likely to be lethal, and the CQB Sniper near-wiping a Conscript Squad would be unheard of. The only side-effect is he'll gain resistance to flames and explosions, which would put him at average resistance with every other unit in the game except Sov Sniper and Osttruppen.

+1

German sniper is great. Use them right, need some skill. His vet1 abillity is superior versus shocks.

Ost sniper vet 1 ability is bugged right now, especially vs. shocks which ignore the stun effect. Also what Mr. Someguy wrote.