Penal Battalions and Assault Grenadiers
Posts: 1637
When assaukt grens were first released these were a menance. But this was before the change in starting resources.
Assgrens are really only good against conscripts. Even Penals can counter them and they dont scale well.
I think they should be lowered to say 280 manpower. They do not perform anywhere near Pgrens yet they cost nearly as much.
And lets not forget good old Penals. They come in a building designed for AI. They cost as much as Pgrens yet perform a little betrer than LMG grens even with the flamer.
I think they should be lowered to about 320 Manpower or have thier dps increased to Pgrens level of AI.
Since Penals come sooner and benefit from merge i dont think their performance shoukd be increased. So i personally would prefer a cost decrease.
Posts: 254
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedPosts: 4928
Side-note, why didn't they call them Sturmgrenadiers? It's better in every way.
Posts: 647
assault grenadiers are out done in every way by pgrens which is non doctrinal and I think they are a needless addition to the german army.
they come too early so they cannot be too powerful, making them fairly useless late game due to lack of scaling. make them come 1cp later and no one will bother about them because pzgrens are already hitting the field. buff them and they will screw early game balance against conscripts. make them cheaper and they are still a bad investment since they cannot protect themselves from vehicles.
so yea, where do they actually fit?
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
i dont think every infantry in game should get a vehicle snaring ability.
assault grenadiers are out done in every way by pgrens which is non doctrinal and I think they are a needless addition to the german army.
they come too early so they cannot be too powerful, making them fairly useless late game due to lack of scaling. make them come 1cp later and no one will bother about them because pzgrens are already hitting the field. buff them and they will screw early game balance against conscripts. make them cheaper and they are still a bad investment since they cannot protect themselves from vehicles.
so yea, where do they actually fit?
This is a valid point. The attempt to fit everything in by DLC so it can be charged for has resulted in units that have no place. Since they won't go away they do need some help though; so we can't let the problem go...sadly. If I could have it my way I would either remove them or buff them significantly and place them at 2 cp's, or possibly even 3, but that would defeat the purpose of the commander.
Posts: 15
I mean they can't even throw a satchel at one pg squad
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
I mean they can't even throw a satchel at one pg squad
Penals honestly shouldn't be throwing a short-range satchel against an assault unit that excels at killing enemy infantry.
They're in this weird role of being long-ranged infantry, but they have a flamethrower on top of being both expensive and squishy.
Posts: 15
Posts: 1571
So say a 4 man squad with 4 x PPSH. Armor remains @ 1 so they are weak like engineers. The unit is designed to attack tanks with AT grenades or drop satchels. Up-gradable with the flamethrower.
Price? maybe 280 MP
===============
As far as the actual penals themselves, I find that they work best when placed in a 'clown car'. The clown car protects them, and they get to put their long ranged rifles and their flamethrowers to use.
So if you want a flamer clowncar with more firepower, you get the penals. And of course, you can satchel things and have the advantage of getting there fast.
Posts: 95
I would prefer an armor upgrade over a cost decrease. A cost decrease would likely make them too effective IMO. Although they are fairly cost effective if you are conscientious about merging. An armor upgrade would actually justify paying a bit more in reinforcement cost rather than merging.
Posts: 4928
Posts: 688
I think they should have a brief fire-up or something when the satchel ability is activated. In order to make a soft retreat an option after satchel.
Apart from that it's true what has been said above about the contradiction that it is a long-range unit equipped with short range specialty weapons.
But try seing it as a feature rather than a problem. I think we're getting too conventional here, expecting each unit to be clearly either AI or AT, either short or long range etc.
I appreciate that the game leaves room for creative strategy but mixing odd abilities.
We don't want all strategies to be Zerg-rushes, do we?
Posts: 15
An armor buff to equal the armor of grens and pgrens would make this unit slightly more viable consequently making it an early non-doctrinal counter to Ostheer infantry blobs (something I've been encountering a lot more often since the tank scatter increase).
Posts: 101
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The satchel charge is epic. Penals are just strong enough to be able to run into gun fire and start flaming grens(unlike engineers).
And hit retreat the moment they get in range to avoid squad wipe to LMG42/G43 grens.
I think you confused penals with shocks or guards.
Posts: 786
They get armor bonus at vet2 so they don't scale that bad actually.
Their nade is pretty bad in most cases but is great for clearing buildings.
Posts: 4928
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
AG's cost and nade cost need to be reduced, or the nade needs to be buffed. Using the grenades, even if you allow the full ability to go through on a stationary enemy, will kill up to 3 or 4. Yes, I get that they have MP 40's, and Shocks have 6x PPSh, yet their nade can wipe Gren squads on a good day.
Shocks nade have almost zero AoE.
To squad wipe all squad members need to hump each other hard. If you move 2 steps in any direction, shock nade will do absolutely nothing.
AGs nade on the other hand will more then likely wipe anything that is in building. No other nade can do that. Their nades also can't be completely dodged because of the area they all land in.
If thats not enough for you, shocks come later and are more expensive.
Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
The only thing worth thinking about would be a cost decrease to 300 or 320 manpower (and maybe 7 or 8 instead of 9 population cost).
Penals have a role and are good at it, however in most scenarios they are too costly for it. Their manpower and population cost put them in the same league as elite infantry which they're not quite.
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