Nerf the Sturmovik

What's the point of googling stuff? If I google "Soviet mines squad wipes" I'll get just that. Will this be a true representation of the unit/ability? No, it will not.

^yeah xDD

Who were also wounded or lacking half of their men. I have never seen IL-2 run to kill whole healthy squads on retreat. Lets not exaggerate here because soon we will have the same situation like with Soviet mines which as is now believed kill whole squads with easy all the time.
I do understand that some poor guy got his army annihilated in some team game because he clustered his units but as said before for 240 munition this ability better does just that unless someone is happy to pay this amount for what could easily be a shooting recon plane.

Er... I've had countless instances of the IL-2 strafe instantly killing full HP squads. Both when I've used it and when it has been used against me, in every game size. The ability is beyond broken right now and definitely needs addressing - nothing in this game should be able to instantly kill a full HP squad with no way for the other player to react, it is just silly.

Even worse is that the Ostwind, at times, is awful at shooting down IL-2s. Even more hilarious is that IL-2 can easily finish off wounded tanks, and frequently causes engine damage and other crits because of how many times it hits in rapid succession.

The ability is broken, it will be nerfed, plain and simple.

Er... I've had countless instances of the IL-2 strafe instantly killing full HP squads. Both when I've used it and when it has been used against me, in every game size. The ability is beyond broken right now and definitely needs addressing - nothing in this game should be able to instantly kill a full HP squad with no way for the other player to react, it is just silly.

Even worse is that the Ostwind, at times, is awful at shooting down IL-2s. Even more hilarious is that IL-2 can easily finish off wounded tanks, and frequently causes engine damage and other crits because of how many times it hits in rapid succession.

The ability is broken, it will be nerfed, plain and simple.

typical German player crying, it cost a lot of ammunition to prevent spam of this ability

Lets nerf everything.
Lets make a 240 munition expensive late game ability useless so it doesn't kill anything. Way to go.

As per example above it's ok for a similar German ability to destroy 3 SU-85 but it's not ok for a Sturmovik to kill few infantry squads?

This happens a lot in balance threads and it's a touch short sighted. Two points about this quote:

1.) I don't believe people are clamoring for it to be nerfed and still remain 240muni and late game all at once. If it has a more moderate effect it can have a more moderate cost or come sooner.

2.) Just because an ability costs a lot doesn't mean that it's okay. Let me absurdly extend this ability in the other direction - for 600 munitions I click a button and the "Game Over" screen shows up, my win. Just because it costs a ton doesn't make it fair or good.


Slightly more on topic, I agree that this plane needs to be fixed. Frankly all the planes could use an overhaul because they're all fire and forget with punishing results. My personal change to increase player involvement would be:

- Activate the ability for X munitions, say 100 or so. During this window another commander ability appears called "Airstrike". Nothing else happens. Ability deactivates after some seconds, say 60.

- Using "Airstrike" gives the targeting reticle similar to CoH1 strafing/bombing run. Activating Airstrike costs Y munitions, say 30 and causes the appropriate plane to make a single pass through the targeted area. It does not target and seek squads or vehicles, just the area it was given (similar to CoH1).

- Once used, Airstrike has a Z second cooldown, say 10 seconds. This is mostly to avoid huge spam and to limit the amount of runs possible. In this example, you could have anywhere from 0 to 6 airstrikes per activation, each costing 30 munitions beyond the base 100.

This brings micro and choice and targeting back into the player's realm instead of fire/forget autoseek. The moving from targeting squads to targeting areas is more realistic and also rewards micro for getting out of the way. If you leave a squad in the killzone and it dies, that's your fault.

This also opens up the possibility to make AA stronger without rendering the plane abilities useless. Using completely arbitrary numbers, if an Ostwind/M5 could shoot down a plane even 50% of the time it makes a pass it's only stopping the muni cost (and opportunity cost) of that particular plane activation. The ability can keep going afterwards with later planes.

typical German player crying, it cost a lot of ammunition to prevent spam of this ability

Nice first post. I see you're going to have a bright future here.

Anyways, next time please check my stats before posting utter rubbish. If you'd taken 1 second to click my playercard you'd realize that I play both factions frequently and at a very high level. When discussing balance I never prefer one faction over the other and my only goal is to make this game better/more balanced. If you can't deal with that... sorry.

Oh and if this post was too long/complicated for your minuscule brain let me give you the TLDR version: Stop being stupid. Typical dumbass being a dumbass.

Cheers.

Too powerful and too big of an gain for the little amount of skill it takes to use. lower its cost, lower its duration and lower its area of effect.. and as said before fix the movement on infantry so they stop bunch up (especially axis infantry) would fix a lot of bs squad wipes.

Just get AA

Geez, guys, don't you get tired of this "please nerf" posts.

I can start a post "Nerf Tigers and Panthers" because

U either:

1. Get AT
2. Loose

And I appreciate you understanding that IL2 strafe run is the most expensive ability in game.
You just don't understand the fact that if a Soviet player constantly spams Strafing Run at cost of 240 muni each...

U either:

1. Already lost
2. Or soviet player had to save all of this muni at the cost of other abilities like MINES.
So just go out party with dozen of tanks and you might turn tide of battle.

Just use your brain.

Just get AA

Geez, guys, don't you get tired of this "please nerf" posts.

I can start a post "Nerf Tigers and Panthers" because

U either:

1. Get AT
2. Loose

And I appreciate you understanding that IL2 strafe run is the most expensive ability in game.
You just don't understand the fact that if a Soviet player constantly spams Strafing Run at cost of 240 muni each...

U either:

1. Already lost
2. Or soviet player had to save all of this muni at the cost of other abilities like MINES.
So just go out party with dozen of tanks and you might turn tide of battle.

Just use your brain.

I bet you don't even understand the actual mechanics behind the IL-2 strafe and yet you post nonsense like this on the forums.

Also AA isn't reliable against any strafing run, I've had Ostwinds spend the entire duration of the strafe shooting but the IL-2 still passes three times. I've also killed Ostwinds with the IL-2. Furthermore for both factions AA comes out of a single tier of tech so saying "just get AA" isn't exactly a great argument.

Mark my words, IL-2 will be nerfed.

Well, I don't care if it gets nerfed or not. So no need to mark your words, Mister.
I don't use strafing run, I play with other commanders and weapons.
And guess what... I win, not always, but recently good amount of games.

And I appreciate you understanding that IL2 strafe run is the most expensive ability in game.
You just don't understand the fact that if a Soviet player constantly spams Strafing Run at cost of 240 muni each...


Just use your brain.

Ostheer's "Stuka Close Air Support" is also 240 munitions... and is not able to do the crazy wrecking the IL-2 does. Even though the Stuka is still pretty darn strong, don't get me wrong.

Who were also wounded or lacking half of their men. I have never seen IL-2 run to kill whole healthy squads on retreat. Lets not exaggerate here because soon we will have the same situation like with Soviet mines which as is now believed kill whole squads with easy all the time.
I do understand that some poor guy got his army annihilated in some team game because he clustered his units but as said before for 240 munition this ability better does just that unless someone is happy to pay this amount for what could easily be a shooting recon plane.

You can instaretreat your troops and have them be half map away from the Strafin run and it will still target them and wipe them.
I´ve this experience both from using it and suffering it. You CAN´T avoid the first strafe since the plane acquire targets inmediatly.
Let not talk about also the amount of time and size you force any light-med armor n infantry offmap unless you want to play with RNG if the plane is gonna wipe your squads or not.

Anyways, all planes and specially strafin runs (Light - Heavy - Sturmovik) should be counter almost inmediatly if there is some kind of AA on the zone.

I prefer having a reduce range on the MAA but with much higher accuracy or effectiveness. Regarding numbers (if someone can help me with the actual numbers for comparison) i´m talking about a 50%-75% of taking it down on each pass. This only with M5 Quad upgrade and Ostwind. 222 should have a small buff and M3 should have a late upgrade as well (if its historically possible).
On this way you can actually counter reliably planes by moving your AA (and not just expecting it to kill it sitting on the middle of the map) and you shouldnt use planes if you are not sure there is no AA threat.

@Tokarev
Offtopic: what about Railyway Artyllery? Doesnt anyone find a bit "lame" the time to hit? Is it like 8-10s? You MAY be hit by its first shell (if you fell asleep) but it´s impossible for the other 3 shells to do something. OH the most expensive ability on the game!

Oh please.... Don't take it to personal!
I guess I should have not say "Just use your brain". My apologies to all who got offended.
All what I wanted to say that you can easily see IL2 coming. You see PPSH and HtD? Your tanks and squads don't run through any mines?? More likely, you will see IL2 runs once you hit 12cp

In this case you could dominate both muni points (before 12cp) and deprive soviets of munition (240 is huge, trust me). Or like I said you could go tanks heavy, baiting enemy into spending resources on mines and guards abilities.

It's like when I see early pre-vetted shiny sexy grens and team weapons, I know that there will be Tiger Ace at 16cp. So I build heavy AT defense, choose a commander with ISU152 and mine the ground like crazy.

My message is that the strategy is predictable. It's not like you are going through mid game, doing very well and then "boom" - a freakin IL2 drops down on your head like snow in July. Not all commanders have strafing run, not all players choose these commanders and not all games make to 12 cp. So how often do you see this happen?

That was the context in "Just use your brain". See, the game has been changing towards balance (I guess), and now it's not like it was before, when Germans would start the game in any way they want and Russians would have to adjust their game play to properly respond to German player.

I hope my post helps some of you.

@Elchino7

Railway artillery is best used against immobilized targets like heavily damaged tanks that are getting repaired by engineers, trying to kill with it a squad of shocks is not a good idea.

By the way, Russians have a bunch of abilities that require slow moving/ immobilized target also.

Anyway, these topic is about nerfing another soviet ability, just because German fanboys don't win 9 out of 10 games anymore.

Furthermore for both factions AA comes out of a single tier of tech so saying "just get AA" isn't exactly a great argument.

I'll contest that by saying germans have 5 forms of AA across 3 tiers, but only one is dedicated.

I dont have examples of others so i will use this.
39:50


-74s mark: He barely calls it "without" LOS.
-71s: It take like 3s to actually show up the flares.
-70/69s: issue the retreat order as you see the troops moving on the minimap
-It passes away since he didnt have any LOS of any unit (i dont know if this is how it works or i was just "lucky")
-When the PG and grens were on the road near my base i got half PG squad kill and fullhealth gren wipe.
-When ATR3UH moved the camera you easily see how big the range of the IL2 is.
Use the VP and the PG point on the map as Radius and draw a imaginary circle. Now move that into the center of the map and tell me where i can move without getting target by it.

@Tokarev: im talking about killing an AT gun. 120muni Flame and Light Artyllery 80% of the time does it´s job. Even with the big splash damage you have enough time to dodge a Railway.

I'll contest that by saying germans have 5 forms of AA across 3 tiers, but only one is dedicated.

Unless you're including tank MGs and/or the 222 I'm not really sure how you came by this number.

Either way the tank MGs are, generally, pretty terrible at shooting down any sort of strafing run (this is true for both sides) so I don't really count them at all. I guess sometimes you might get lucky and shoot down the plane... but 9 time out of 10 it won't help you.

I dont have examples of others so i will use this.
39:50

look how effective that vet 3 mg on the tank was. such good AA. the il2 only flew over him like 10 times.

Oh please.... Don't take it to personal!
I guess I should have not say "Just use your brain". My apologies to all who got offended.
All what I wanted to say that you can easily see IL2 coming. You see PPSH and HtD? Your tanks and squads don't run through any mines?? More likely, you will see IL2 runs once you hit 12cp

In this case you could dominate both muni points (before 12cp) and deprive soviets of munition (240 is huge, trust me). Or like I said you could go tanks heavy, baiting enemy into spending resources on mines and guards abilities.

It's like when I see early pre-vetted shiny sexy grens and team weapons, I know that there will be Tiger Ace at 16cp. So I build heavy AT defense, choose a commander with ISU152 and mine the ground like crazy.

My message is that the strategy is predictable. It's not like you are going through mid game, doing very well and then "boom" - a freakin IL2 drops down on your head like snow in July. Not all commanders have strafing run, not all players choose these commanders and not all games make to 12 cp. So how often do you see this happen?

That was the context in "Just use your brain". See, the game has been changing towards balance (I guess), and now it's not like it was before, when Germans would start the game in any way they want and Russians would have to adjust their game play to properly respond to German player.

I hope my post helps some of you.

I play Sov much more than I play Wehr, but this ability is too powerful regardless of the cost. Germans shouldn't be forced into going T3, then going a dedicated AI unit because of the possible threat of a munitions call-in. 320 mp and 115 fuel is way too much to have a not very effective counter to an IL-2. If the Ostwind shot down the strafe before it did anything 100% of the time, then MAYBE it would be worth it, but it's just silly now.

Remember when the German strafe was a major problem due to its long loiter time and ability to suppress everything on God's green earth? The solution was to reduce the time it circled the field and reduce its area of effect. The solution was not, "Just use your brain, you know it's coming so just build 2 M5 quads, and then you'll be fine stop complaining."

And again, this thread is about the IL-2 strafe, I agree that the Tiger Ace is complete bullshit but this is not the thread to discuss Ace balance, there are more than enough threads for that.

look how effective that vet 3 mg on the tank was. such good AA. the il2 only flew over him like 10 times.

The damage is already done on the first or second run.
Even if sarcastic or not, I could live up with an MG gunner nerf: for example like getting killed more frequently (i dont think thats a safe position).
Historically asking, were they more for AA or AI ? Anyway i wouldnt mind seeing it losing AA capabilities if other specific AA got buff.

Off: i would love seeing more upgrades beeing less braindead and more thoughtfull choices (MG gunners on tanks or PPSH for example)