agree and disagree.
If you are talking about the way call-in abilities affect gameplay, then I agree.
German strafe for example, doesn't do as much physical damage to units but in strategic sense it does enormous damage. Locking down huge area for long duration to any infantry at a click of a button.
If you are complaining about general way in which game has been designed to diminish importance of skill and tactical use of abilities in favor of no defense vs noob click of a button, then I am with you.
If you are just German fanboying, then I disagree with nerfing ONLY IL2
Nerf the Sturmovik
11 Feb 2014, 01:04 AM
#21
Posts: 829
11 Feb 2014, 01:06 AM
#22
Posts: 829
sorry meant to edit
11 Feb 2014, 04:00 AM
#23
Posts: 231
My two problems with the IL2 are:
1) It's too effective on retreating squads.
2) It tracks squads too effectively.
The Soviet strafe should be very effective for its high cost, however if the German player retreats immediately they should be able to save their squads. As it is now the strafe comes in and wipes out retreating squads or even squads that have made it back to base. Instead the strafe should do heavy damage to squads/vehicles that did not leave the call-in zone, or units that re-enter the area before the strafe is over.
I just don't like the fact that it is called in and then proceeds to kill whatever was in that area regardless of the other players action. There should be something the German can do to prevent the squad wipes. It's just not CoH to be unable to do anything about it.
1) It's too effective on retreating squads.
2) It tracks squads too effectively.
The Soviet strafe should be very effective for its high cost, however if the German player retreats immediately they should be able to save their squads. As it is now the strafe comes in and wipes out retreating squads or even squads that have made it back to base. Instead the strafe should do heavy damage to squads/vehicles that did not leave the call-in zone, or units that re-enter the area before the strafe is over.
I just don't like the fact that it is called in and then proceeds to kill whatever was in that area regardless of the other players action. There should be something the German can do to prevent the squad wipes. It's just not CoH to be unable to do anything about it.
11 Feb 2014, 04:43 AM
#24
Posts: 157
The IL2 is also 12CP compared to the strafing run which is 6CP for those who question the difference in power (which still suppresses retreating troops from what I've seen). The Strafing run is technically more cost effective. Pin the troops, send in some PGs or FHT and you'll squad wipe them as well. Combined arms works both ways. I've seen it used way more defensively than offensively.
IL2's a late game ability. If you're pumping out more armored vehicles, which forces Soviets to mine (which they have to, to stand a chance). This drains munitions and you'll seldom see IL2 strikes happen.
I'm surprised people are complaining about IL2s now. They haven't changed since launch.
IL2's a late game ability. If you're pumping out more armored vehicles, which forces Soviets to mine (which they have to, to stand a chance). This drains munitions and you'll seldom see IL2 strikes happen.
I'm surprised people are complaining about IL2s now. They haven't changed since launch.
11 Feb 2014, 04:46 AM
#25
Posts: 29
all problem units/abilities are actually just 1 problem ... german infantry unit pathing.
Squad members are too close too often, which randomly (but quite often) causes instant squad wipes by t34s, 30muni mines, 120mm mortars, strafes, etc...none of which should be instantly wiping whole squads as often as the all do.
addressing this issue should really be a priority, because balancing around it seems inevitably problematic.
Squad members are too close too often, which randomly (but quite often) causes instant squad wipes by t34s, 30muni mines, 120mm mortars, strafes, etc...none of which should be instantly wiping whole squads as often as the all do.
addressing this issue should really be a priority, because balancing around it seems inevitably problematic.
11 Feb 2014, 05:27 AM
#26
Posts: 231
The IL2 is also 12CP compared to the strafing run which is 6CP for those who question the difference in power (which still suppresses retreating troops from what I've seen). The Strafing run is technically more cost effective. Pin the troops, send in some PGs or FHT and you'll squad wipe them as well. Combined arms works both ways. I've seen it used way more defensively than offensively.
IL2's a late game ability. If you're pumping out more armored vehicles, which forces Soviets to mine (which they have to, to stand a chance). This drains munitions and you'll seldom see IL2 strikes happen.
I'm surprised people are complaining about IL2s now. They haven't changed since launch.
Stuka close-air support is 12 CP, and it doesn't wipe nearly as often as the IL-2. Which I'm not saying buff the close-air support, or radically change the German faction, just make it so the IL-2 wipes retreating squads less often.
People are likely complaining about them now due to the increased popularity of shocks. In the past Guards strategies were much more prevalent, and are also much more munition reliant. Shock strategies usually don't need to use too much munitions, even with mines and grenade usage. With guards you're pretty munition starved even till the end of the game, having 240 munitions is pretty rare with guards, but not with shocks.
11 Feb 2014, 05:27 AM
#27
Posts: 219
Why does the german heavy strafe suck so much??
I have been accused of only winning because of the the german heavy strafe...
11 Feb 2014, 05:33 AM
#28
Posts: 2779
I have been accused of only winning because of the the german heavy strafe...
Let me guess? That Stuka killed 3 SU-85s?
(It happened, my vet 1 Tiger and a Stuka won a game for me)
11 Feb 2014, 05:51 AM
#29
Posts: 157
Stuka close-air support is 12 CP, and it doesn't wipe nearly as often as the IL-2. Which I'm not saying buff the close-air support, or radically change the German faction, just make it so the IL-2 wipes retreating squads less often.
People are likely complaining about them now due to the increased popularity of shocks. In the past Guards strategies were much more prevalent, and are also much more munition reliant. Shock strategies usually don't need to use too much munitions, even with mines and grenade usage. With guards you're pretty munition starved even till the end of the game, having 240 munitions is pretty rare with guards, but not with shocks.
I think you have the me confused with the Stuka 37mm cannon with the Assault Support Strafing Run I'm referring too, which is 6CP and half the cost of an IL2 Attack. That's seen way more often than the Close Air Support in games (As Ost, I play Mech Assault, and I see way more Ostruppen, Assault Support, and Elite than any other commander). Technically, the Stuka heavy strafing is just as deadly.
11 Feb 2014, 06:12 AM
#30
Posts: 231
I think you have the me confused with the Stuka 37mm cannon with the Assault Support Strafing Run I'm referring too, which is 6CP and half the cost of an IL2 Attack. That's seen way more often than the Close Air Support in games (As Ost, I play Mech Assault, and I see way more Ostruppen, Assault Support, and Elite than any other commander). Technically, the Stuka heavy strafing is just as deadly.
No, I know you meant the normal strafing run, but I don't think the Close Air Support is as deadly or as big of a squad wiper as the IL-2 strafe. I don't know the stats on it, but I see the IL-2 wipe squads a lot more than I see the Close Air Support.
I can see your argument that the generic Strafing Run is arguably better than the IL-2, but that's a different argument for a different thread. This is just discussing that the IL-2 strafing run and that it should be nerfed due to its propensity to wipe out squads regardless of the other players actions.
11 Feb 2014, 06:28 AM
#31
Posts: 219
Let me guess? That Stuka killed 3 SU-85s?
(It happened, my vet 1 Tiger and a Stuka won a game for me)
Actually, that's pretty precise. It had a habit of killing his damaged tanks from previous engagements...
11 Feb 2014, 06:45 AM
#32
Posts: 157
No, I know you meant the normal strafing run, but I don't think the Close Air Support is as deadly or as big of a squad wiper as the IL-2 strafe. I don't know the stats on it, but I see the IL-2 wipe squads a lot more than I see the Close Air Support.
I can see your argument that the generic Strafing Run is arguably better than the IL-2, but that's a different argument for a different thread. This is just discussing that the IL-2 strafing run and that it should be nerfed due to its propensity to wipe out squads regardless of the other players actions.
That might be true. I think they serve different purposes. The Stuka has a 37mm cannon and seems to be more AT based with a slower but more powerful ROF. The IL2 has a faster ROF and is more AI based. I think this is proof of the existing issue that Soviet has an incredible amount of AI available and the Ost has an Incredible amount of AT available. It's part of the flaw of slightly unbalanced asymmetrical design for each faction.
Speculation: Seems there's a purveying expectation in Relic's design decision that Ost will field more powerful squads on the field, while Soviets will field more tanks.
11 Feb 2014, 07:00 AM
#33
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
I'm surprised people are complaining about IL2s now. They haven't changed since launch.
Update September 10th, 2013
IL-2 Sturmovik Attack
• Loiter area radius from 70 to 60
• Target lead out from 20 to 8
• Target lead in from 20 to 16
• Delay between attack from 4s to 18s
• Attack sway width from 4.5 to 3
• Attack sway frequency from 3 to 2
• Search attack target from false to true
• Duration time from 40s to 75s
• Recharge time from 75s to 165s
• Modified UI Barrage Radius to be more noticeable
• Rate of fire from 13 to 10
• Damage from 15 to 20
• Penetration from 50 to 42.5
11 Feb 2014, 07:07 AM
#34
Posts: 157
Ah, I missed that in the changelog. I stand corrected. Searched for IL2 instead of IL-2.
11 Feb 2014, 08:51 AM
#35
Posts: 379
These do need a nerf.
11 Feb 2014, 09:06 AM
#36
Posts: 1003
For 240 munition Relic can add some acrobation show and color smoke from wings.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
11 Feb 2014, 10:31 AM
#37
Posts: 1439
Lets nerf everything.
Lets make a 240 munition expensive late game ability useless so it doesn't kill anything. Way to go.
As per example above it's ok for a similar German ability to destroy 3 SU-85 but it's not ok for a Sturmovik to kill few infantry squads?
Lets make a 240 munition expensive late game ability useless so it doesn't kill anything. Way to go.
As per example above it's ok for a similar German ability to destroy 3 SU-85 but it's not ok for a Sturmovik to kill few infantry squads?
11 Feb 2014, 11:05 AM
#38
Posts: 2779
Lets nerf everything.
Lets make a 240 munition expensive late game ability useless so it doesn't kill anything. Way to go.
As per example above it's ok for a similar German ability to destroy 3 SU-85 but it's not ok for a Sturmovik to kill few infantry squads?
Stuka only kill wounded half health tanks and sleepy driver refused to move out of the area.
IL-2 can fuck up retreating squad.
11 Feb 2014, 11:42 AM
#39
Posts: 1439
Who were also wounded or lacking half of their men. I have never seen IL-2 run to kill whole healthy squads on retreat. Lets not exaggerate here because soon we will have the same situation like with Soviet mines which as is now believed kill whole squads with easy all the time.
I do understand that some poor guy got his army annihilated in some team game because he clustered his units but as said before for 240 munition this ability better does just that unless someone is happy to pay this amount for what could easily be a shooting recon plane.
I do understand that some poor guy got his army annihilated in some team game because he clustered his units but as said before for 240 munition this ability better does just that unless someone is happy to pay this amount for what could easily be a shooting recon plane.
11 Feb 2014, 11:50 AM
#40
Posts: 2779
Who were also wounded or lacking half of their men. I have never seen IL-2 run to kill whole healthy squads on retreat. Lets not exaggerate here because soon we will have the same situation like with Soviet mines which as is now believed kill whole squads with easy all the time.
I do understand that some poor guy got his army annihilated in some team game because he clustered his units but as said before for 240 munition this ability better does just that unless someone is happy to pay this amount for what could easily be a shooting recon plane.
Then google it yourself. YouTube and replay isn't hard to find.
Both stuff you mentioned can instant squad wipe always, and proven the damage is much higher than 80 that can kill some dudes wherever they are full health or not.
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