T-34-76 after patch

Get used to it.

Its not going anywhere as long as best T3 unit have 80 penetration.

We don`t want it removed, well except link0 (who talks but I have never seen him actually playing anywhere), we want it reworked and ram=stun is much better than the current RNG YOLO shit. If Relic wants YOLO units they should introduce the Japanese faction who were quite popular with with suicide at that time period.

On general note T-34/76 were doctrinally replaced by T34/85 in the Beta and everyone was complaining how fcking stupid it was.

Get used to it.

Its not going anywhere as long as best T3 unit have 80 penetration.

use tier 4 then. i find it a bit disturbing how many soviet players beleive that one tier should solve all problems. the enitre faction is build around its commander + a cerain tier. i expect osme combined arms and skill from te soviet player to knock out a german heavy and not a spammable all rounder.

use tier 4 then. i find it a bit disturbing how many soviet players beleive that one tier should solve all problems. the enitre faction is build around its commander + a cerain tier. i expect osme combined arms and skill from te soviet player to knock out a german heavy and not a spammable all rounder.

And I find it disturbing how many german only players believe that soviets can have T3 and T4 in one game unless it lasts 50+ minutes.

If you've went for strat that involves T3, then he will not have T4.
"Just using T4" is also no solution. Its extremely boring and extremely map dependent, unless you want to return to times where it was all about guards+M3 snipers to SU-85 spam, because I certainly don't.

Plus if Soviet player went T4 you can go T4 as well as German and punish him with Panthers. You will have a small window of time in which you will be valour a vulnerable to Soviet armour but don't you worry as SU85 is not infantry destroyer and it can't be rally used offensively against any decent opponent as Soviet player will get punished for any play like that.
Despite common opinion on this forum Panther destroys SU-85 and with Vet1 kills infantry with easy. Last time I used this trick on 2 Shock squads I couldn't stop laughing.

^

Instead of T-34/76, I use 1-2 SU-76 during that mid-game timeframe. I use its barrage for AI, and I wait until fuel is up for the SU-85. Then I use the two types together w. SU on focus forward. But have 60 range so they can move together.

The SU-76 is 'ok' for the price. It is no T-34 but it's better than nothing. It helps clear weapons teams/cap zones and bleed some german manpower.

And I find it disturbing how many german only players believe that soviets can have T3 and T4 in one game unless it lasts 50+ minutes.

If you've went for strat that involves T3, then he will not have T4.
"Just using T4" is also no solution. Its extremely boring and extremely map dependent, unless you want to return to times where it was all about guards+M3 snipers to SU-85 spam, because I certainly don't.

the enitre faction is build around its commander + a cerain tier.

You dont understand how your faction works then? Your commander is supposed to be either AI or AT to fill the gap. right now their is no gap just stacking of AI units like shocks with t-34 and still win despite the lack of stratergy or combined arms because of ram.

In my opinion ram should not work with any unit that has heavy crush. if you have shocks and t-34's out you should lose when the tiger or panther arrives because should punis you for your lack combined arms and planning. instead we see soviets win that would be a los for the germans. just spam p'4 and wait how that works when the is2 arrives or even the kv1.

i still think ram should just do crew shock for about 5-8 seconds, both tanks are out of action in that duration, then both will recover at back to their previous state. that means no engine damages, gun damages, nothing and be placed into vet1 ability.

it should be used to buy time for clunky soviet AT units to get into position to fire, not as a suicidal unit.

then you buff t34 to a proper medium tank, not a bigger t70 as it is right now. that means penetration of a 110 so that they can have 100% chance go penetrate panthers at the rear. front armour of 140, and increase its cost to be more in line with the p4. 300mp/95 fuel.

soviet tanks need better vet 1 abilities imo, especially the is2. smoke dischargers for the is2 at vet1 please.

what i want to do is to make tank combat more about flanking and achieving rear armour shots, making medium tanks more relevant in late games as effective guards against flanks and being flankers themselves. and the only way to do so is that medium tanks must be capable of independent operations.

2nd thing i like to point out is the amount of damage heavy tanks and heavy assault guns do. they output way too much damage in a single shell and have to be scaled down to make way for medium tanks to survive in the late game.

240/320 are too much damaged being dished out and makes them so much more superior to medium tanks. imo, the highest damage should be 160, so medium tanks have a good chance of getting away instead of being wasted in 2-3 shots. then apply 25% damage modifiers on is2/tigers/isu/elefants to be more effective against each other.

^ Why not just remove Heavy Tanks and give the Russians Panzer IV's?

^ Why not just remove Heavy Tanks and give the Russians Panzer IV's?

well heavy tanks can soak up loads of fire and have good armour. they are still effective as breakthrough tanks, wrecking the frontlines of support teams and infantry. you are welcome to use medium tanks in front of a AT gun/su85 though i would question ur choice.

i would give soviets something closer to p4 if i could. the performance of t34 only makes it in to a suicidal unit and it is not sustainable to lose a t34 everytime a heavy tank shows up, destroying heavy tanks still take a fair bit of time. not to mention there's a good chance to 'dodge' rams now.

^ Why not just remove Heavy Tanks and give the Russians Panzer IV's?

Imho I think most of the balance issues result in the lack of T-34/85 for the Russians. Relic should really consider making them non-doctrinal.

Imho I think most of the balance issues result in the lack of T-34/85 for the Russians. Relic should really consider making them non-doctrinal.

Only two commanders have T-34/85. Iconic tank, made in the tens of thousands of pieces.
(Brummbär was made in number 306 pieces.)

Imho I think most of the balance issues result in the lack of T-34/85 for the Russians. Relic should really consider making them non-doctrinal.

This I can support. I thought it was weird that we're late-war, and yet the T-34/85 is not only doctrinal, but uncommon among doctrines at that. Put the T-34/85 in T3 as a separate unit from the T-34/76.

This I can support. I thought it was weird that we're late-war, and yet the T-34/85 is not only doctrinal, but uncommon among doctrines at that. Put the T-34/85 in T3 as a separate unit from the T-34/76.

Don't forget outdated, pre war KV-1 instead of KV-85(KV-1 modification with SU-85/T34/85 cannon) adapted to german late war armor.

To me its just relic being EXTREMELY lazy.

Multiplayer is set in 44-45 years, yet soviet army with few exceptions is from 42 year at best.

This I can support. I thought it was weird that we're late-war, and yet the T-34/85 is not only doctrinal, but uncommon among doctrines at that. Put the T-34/85 in T3 as a separate unit from the T-34/76.

T34-85 should be a relatively high cost upgrade that will allow you to build 85's from T3 instead of 76's, preventing need to upgrade to T4 and allowing engagement with heavier armor. Simultaneously ram must be removed. Give T34's flank speed or AP rounds for munitions cost.

Call-in T34-85's would avoid the need to build T3 and upgrade so would still be worth it.

Although KV-85's were built (<200 tanks), they were extremely rare. Not exactly a general answer to Ost heavy armor. Primarily the Soviets relied on IS-2 tanks to engage German heavy armor in tank battles.

Although KV-85's were built (<200 tanks), they were extremely rare. Not exactly a general answer to Ost heavy armor. Primarily the Soviets relied on IS-2 tanks to engage German heavy armor in tank battles.

44 Ostwinds were built.
Do I need to say more?

I can't imagine a better mid ground between T34/76 and IS-2.
Would still be inferior to panther/tiger, but would give it a hard time cost effectively.

The Brummbar and the Panzerwerfer were also rare while the T-34/85 was deployed in the five figures starting from 1944 onward. They largely replaced T-34/76's.

The most common German armor were Stug III/IV's, Jagdpanzer IVs, Panzer IVs, and Panthers in 1944. Tigers were in their heavy tank battalions. Oddly enough there is no Jagdpanzer IV (armed with the same gun as the Panther) in the game.

The most common Soviet armor were SU-76, SU-85, T-34/76, T-34/85 in 1944. The Soviets also had a large inventory of heavy assault gun regiments which were armed with the ISU/SU 122/152. Heavy tank regiments and brigades were armed with the IS-2 or KV-1.

44 Ostwinds were built.
Do I need to say more?

I can't imagine a better mid ground between T34/76 and IS-2.
Would still be inferior to panther/tiger, but would give it a hard time cost effectively.

I did not realize my comment meant I was arguing that Ostwinds were a good choice for that spot. I agree with you Ostwinds were so rare as to almost not exist, but that has nothing to do with what I stated, and still does not support your argument that Relic is being lazy.

On the contrary. That have everything to do with what you've said.

You've tried to justify exclusion of KV-85, which was just modified KV-1 with the excuse that only a handful of them was made.

I've countered that pointing out that if unit that was build in only 44 models was included as default unit in both vCoH and CoH2, then there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't see Kv-85.

And that does support my argument pretty well, because KV-85 would require new turret model and would be suitable addition to multiplayer(which again, happens in 1944-45), instead we've got old, single player and ToW unit that didn't required any new models, just stat change.

If that doesn't support my argument about relic being lazy, then I don't know what would.

I was making the point that the KV-85 is rare, and it was rare because it was not very effective. The 85 was a good gun, but it was placed on a then aging tank. Soviet armies at the time rapidly transitioned to the IS-2 which was more effective overall. You can argue that KV-85 was used, and it was, but that does not make it a good fit.

More to the point, you want to trade a fast tank, for a slow bullet sponge that has decent penetration on Ost late armor? That does not seem like a good direction to go. How are you going to stop panthers with that thing?

Not a Relic fan boy, but the KV-1 was far more common, and is already in game. You are correct making a new model would take time and energy. Do you really want them spending time on that for just a few players instead of balancing mutli? It is hard to call someone lazy if you have never seen them work.

Except that the KV-1 was long gone by 1943-44 having been replaced by the KV-1s (which was just as bad vs German armour) and the IS and KV chassis were being equipped (in small amounts) with the 85mm gun. The IS-85 and the KV-85 weren't bad they just were stop-gaps and occupied an inconvenient position of the RKKA transitioning between the KV and the IS series.
Also, the KV-85 is dead simple to model, IIRC it's just plonk a T-34-85 turret on the KV Chassis.

OT: T3 is just not good enough to me in all respects. It gets countered by T3 easily (P4s and STuGs, even Ostwinds if they're vet) and there is no contest with T4. Something needs to be added to T3 and I cannot understand why the T-34-85 isn't an upgun like in VCoH. Instead its doctrinal which is just silly. A heavy tank though in T-3 might be an alternative and something like the KV-85 wouldn't go amiss. Something with armour which isn't doctrinal is needed for the Soviets because currently they get nothing whilst the Germans can get speed and armour and punch all at once. It's just silly really.