COH3 needs a redesign before it is dead

Relic needs to face a fact that COH1 and COH2 players are two complete different fanbases and there is no way these two can find a "common game" which is what Relic tried to do with COH3.

The skill trees are back + capture resource points are COH1 style + base building is back + RNG is heavily reduced and some other stuff which are more "COH1" stuff.

But again we have capturing system staying in circle while fighting and capture without taking any risks like COH2 + We have 100 pop cap right at start (this is my biggest problem) while a game that offers territory expansion should always let pop cap to be bound to sectors + auto target abilities like loiters which are heavily COH2 inspired are back even worse than COH2 + Crew shock stupid effects are here + useless snipers + cheap and cheesy meta being heavily rewarded spam and blobs always winning specially for axis cause allies don't have a proper MG.

These two don't work together, COH2 is targeted for non RTS players, it is a game made for anyone to be able to learn and play while COH1 is incredibly skill needed and only passionate RTS players can get to it. What relic is doing with COH3 is like what DICE did with BF2042, you cannot make a game that appeals to both COD and BF players because they are two complete different player base.

I have a lot of issues with COH3 although it had better start than COH2 (at least we didn't get pay to win day 1 DLCs) but the game is just a student project. I hate it that the pop cap and manpower upkeep system is exactly like COH2, the call in tanks require both MP and fuel is just stupid, it forces me to choose between making my own tanks or call ins. The great tank battles of COH1 never happens in COH2 and COH3 specially if you are playing axis, cause you cannot get Tiger and other tanks at same time. The manpower and fuel requirement for Tiger is incredibly high that you need to give up on making P4s.

Why does Easy8 come with a squad? I do not want an engineer squad that takes my Popcap! There was a reason stormtroops escorsts were removed from COH1 by calling StuH and Tigers.

Why do infantry with LMGs can fire them on the move? Like Stusstrupen and US paras. These things are incredibly deadly and if they are suppose to move and run and shoot and have ELITE armour at same time then what's the point of microing or taking cover?

Why DAK MG is locked in T2? Just give DAK a normal barracks and remove PGs from HQ and move them to the barracks that requires littel fuel to be built and put MG + PG + tank hunters there. DAK starrts the game with "mid game".

CP0 unlocks which are the MAIN reason that I quit playing is another thing, almost EVERY player is playing the battle group that gives the best CP0 unlocks.

The list can go on but I guess it is stupid to rant on a dead game...

A remastered CoH1 carbon copy certainly wouldn't make CoH3 better I don't think no, which is exactly what you're crying for here

I guess it is stupid to rant on a dead game...

Hmm I always find a match in under 6 minutes and most of the times it's a full top 200 lobby, doesn't seem that dead yet.

CoH1 on the other hand though since THQ went bankrupt ... oof I've never seen a game die faster than CoH1 when the old servers got shut down

CoH3 needs alien faction and zombies gamemode. I want to see little grey men airdropped from tractor beams. Have something goofy. Maybe just release a spinoff title on the same engine to recoup some costs of developing CoH 3.

Honestly, I think I've had enough of the gritty WW2 aesthetic man, silly and vibrant is in. People already think CoH 3 looks like a mobile game. Fucking own it. Do a goddamn crossover with fortnite LMFAO (kidding, please no).

It's either change gears and generate some publicity (even bad publicity), or Relic really needs to dig in their heels, grit their teeth, and put out some damn content.

Probably neither, but one can dream.

coh3 airdrop MG at 0CP without vision, I dont think coh1 or coh2 ever have this meme.

But again we have capturing system staying in circle while fighting and capture without taking any risks like COH2 + We have 100 pop cap right at start (this is my biggest problem)

Pop-cap system in vCoH was pointless. In vCoH you realistically was able to have armies similar to CoH2\CoH3 armies with around half of the map control, or even less. And pop-cap played any significant role only when one side was pretty much base-locked.

These two don't work together, COH2 is targeted for non RTS players, it is a game made for anyone to be able to learn and play while COH1 is incredibly skill needed and only passionate RTS players can get to it.

This is not really true. vCoH had few more significant complicated mechanics compared to CoH2, mainly capping, resource distribution and over-all it was less forgiving. Everything else which made game harder to play was lack of QoL changes really, which CoH2 objectively improved. Which is not a bad thing, it dosnt make game easier to play, it make game less frustrating to play and less coping is required from player.

Not to mention that, if you compare vCoH to the RTS of its time, it was incredibly easy to get into, so the same argument could be said about CoH in general. DoW and CoH were mostly micro orientated RTS games, while majority of RTS (till this day really), are still macro orientated, in other words using starcraft like formula.

CoH2 has incomparably higher skill ceiling and entry level then CoH1 and 3.
I find it hilarious you think its easier because of what? 1 less building to build per faction?

CoH2 is literally APM twitch RTS, akin to SC2, while CoH1 and 3 are actually approachable for slower player, I can't understand why you think CoH2 is more accessible to anyone, its not, it never was.

Also, not understanding faction design is not a very valid ground to ask for redesign.

A remastered CoH1 carbon copy certainly wouldn't make CoH3 better I don't think no, which is exactly what you're crying for here

this.

The skill trees are back + capture resource points are COH1 style + base building is back + RNG is heavily reduced and some other stuff which are more "COH1" stuff.

But again we have capturing system staying in circle while fighting

The vCoh commanders were changed from Coh2 style to create a less rigid, boring, and predictable teching structure. Everyone liked this idea.

For as long as I remember people were saying the Coh2 point system was not as good as vCoh. The Coh2 system was very limiting when mapping. There were only a few "good" layouts.

A lot of complaints I see for Coh3 are the same that were said about Coh2 (vCoh?). Relic tried to make every faction unique to play. This adds replayability and keeps the game fresh for a long time. So each faction has a weird gimmick like 0 CP call-ins. As soon as the balance team started making each faction have all of the similar tools, they started to lose their gimmicks and people complained. It seems like Relic tried to get the best balance of having all the tools and having a different style.

From a design standpoint, Relic seemed to listen to their audience and give them what they wanted. There are some growing pains like call-ins, TTK, and blobs that need addressed. They just have to actually do it ... which may take a very long time. At this point long is good. Employees have jobs and we get constant changes to look forward to. No boring meta for years on end.

Hilarious, i went back to coh1 like a year ago, and after like 50 hours i was beating people with hours in the thousands, it's not that skillful, the micro is mainly centered around abusing bugs, and the capping system sucks and promotes blobbing.

What it does do well is something coh2 does not do at all, teching strategy, and doctrinal choices. But coh3 blows it out of the water in that aspect.

It's a solid enough game but it's not the holy grail of competitiveness the coh1 players think it is. There's a reason why they didn't make the competitive cut for ML this year.

...
What it does do well is something coh2 does not do at all, teching strategy, and doctrinal choices...

I agree with that but I also have to point out that the tech changes making teching gradually cheaper and more linear contributed to it.

Biggest problem is Relic Upgrade too slow and not have enough content，half years not have new units skins and no new Battle Group，if COH3 final have DAK ，Wer and Ost front Germany，with USF ，Britain and Soviet，also upgrade 10 years like COH2，it still could be legend.

What i Expected from a CoH3 would have been a natural Evolution.
When i played CoH1 for the first time, i was stunned, it was breathtaking. Stuff like Infantry hiding behind Cover. The Stug Machine gun Gunner as Entity that could be killed (i remember that from the Demo haha), The gameplay with the firing arcs and the cover system. It was so detailed and thought-out....

And Coh2 took it even further for me. Especially the lategame was more vivid, with all those explosions, Heavy and light tanks, Planes flying around, Infantry gameplay and Vet System.

The audiovisuals stun me to this day: The Jagdtiger firing. The Infantry shouts. The MG42 Sound. Zoom in and hear the Tanks with broken Engines. They have outdone themselves imo.

How i Imagined Coh3: More Details like: Immobilize a tank and see its Tracks break ingame and lay on ground. Maybe more contextual animations like Infantry press their shoulders on walls and sandbags. Maybe House gameplay: House roofs get transparent as you enter and you can play inside. More Skillshots like the Firefly-Tulip. E.g. Bunker bursting Grenade which you have to aim yourself ingame. That would also fit well to the Muni-Free Special abilities in CoH3, as you get a micro Tax with it (MoBas work well like this)
You can also expand this to infantry: E.G. Shock troop suppression: when you click on it The shock troop places his mg on ground and you get a small arc of fire to suppress. They should have thought about on how to further improve audiovisuals, small gameplay tweaks. Stuff like this

What i Expected from a CoH3 would have been a natural Evolution.
When i played CoH1 for the first time, i was stunned, it was breathtaking. Stuff like Infantry hiding behind Cover. The Stug Machine gun Gunner as Entity that could be killed (i remember that from the Demo haha), The gameplay with the firing arcs and the cover system. It was so detailed and thought-out....

And Coh2 took it even further for me. Especially the lategame was more vivid, with all those explosions, Heavy and light tanks, Planes flying around, Infantry gameplay and Vet System.

The audiovisuals stun me to this day: The Jagdtiger firing. The Infantry shouts. The MG42 Sound. Zoom in and hear the Tanks with broken Engines. They have outdone themselves imo.

How i Imagined Coh3: More Details like: Immobilize a tank and see its Tracks break ingame and lay on ground. Maybe more contextual animations like Infantry press their shoulders on walls and sandbags. Maybe House gameplay: House roofs get transparent as you enter and you can play inside. More Skillshots like the Firefly-Tulip. E.g. Bunker bursting Grenade which you have to aim yourself ingame. That would also fit well to the Muni-Free Special abilities in CoH3, as you get a micro Tax with it (MoBas work well like this)
You can also expand this to infantry: E.G. Shock troop suppression: when you click on it The shock troop places his mg on ground and you get a small arc of fire to suppress. They should have thought about on how to further improve audiovisuals, small gameplay tweaks. Stuff like this

And then you would have whole playerbase screaming how non of these is real coh and how all of it adds needles complexity, not to mention how utterly imbalanced immobilizing vehicles is(guess what, well 3 CoH games had immobilization criticals/methods, they were left exclusively in 1st one, which never got balanced).

Innovation for the same of innovation does not bring new things, it just cripples the gameplay.

Starcraft 2 was not praised because it was different game to SC1, it was praised specifically because it was modernized SC1, adding literally 2 new mechanics to the game, vaulting for some units and sight blockers.

not to mention how utterly imbalanced immobilizing vehicles is(guess what, well 3 CoH games had immobilization criticals/methods, they were left exclusively in 1st one, which never got balanced)

Did something happen to Riegel 43 and M20 mines that I missed? Did you mean they were left exclusively in one game, that being CoH 2? I honestly didn't know there were ways to immobilize tanks in CoH 1.

And then you would have whole playerbase screaming how non of these is real coh and how all of it adds needles complexity, not to mention how utterly imbalanced immobilizing vehicles is(guess what, well 3 CoH games had immobilization criticals/methods, they were left exclusively in 1st one, which never got balanced).

Innovation for the same of innovation does not bring new things, it just cripples the gameplay.

Starcraft 2 was not praised because it was different game to SC1, it was praised specifically because it was modernized SC1, adding literally 2 new mechanics to the game, vaulting for some units and sight blockers.

if this needless complexity is the price i need to pay for a genuinely atmospheric and fun experience, i'll pay it

coh3 may have less gimmicky mechanics, but it nonetheless feels sterile, lifeless and boring to me

Nothing about coh 3 feels lifeless or boring to me. Coh 2 multiplayer when your forced to choose the same commander every single time and the exact same build every time was lifeless and boring. Not being able to use any sherman tanks variants in multiplayer with out it being snared to death every time or insta killed on sight by double invisible racks felt lifeless and boring. Forced to pretty much jackson spam every game lifeless and boring. Not being able to use support weapons because of stuka deleting them every game or spamming lefhs and bunkers lifeless and boring.

Coh 3 is much more about tank battles which i think many more players find fun with the cat and mouse games. Instead of rocket and blob fest and mg camping and lopsided super tanks that was coh2.

I will say coh2 felt much more mythodical in infantry battles but i think that will come on time with coh 3 with balance, bug fixes of units stances things like that how they line up behind cover.

Coh 2 multiplayer when your forced to choose the same commander every single time and the exact same build every time was lifeless and boring.

^ This

Have not heard this complaint in Coh3, but the commander choice is limited and no one is really playing 3v3 or 4v4 yet.

Did something happen to Riegel 43 and M20 mines that I missed? Did you mean they were left exclusively in one game, that being CoH 2? I honestly didn't know there were ways to immobilize tanks in CoH 1.

I'm talking about engine destroyed, tracks destroyed and perma stun criticals as well as button vehicle making vehicles immobilized.

In CoH1 most prominent example would be PE AT-HT with its ability to immobilize any vehicle in 2 shots on demand for low muni cost.

I just made an example of how to visualize gameplay elements with Animations and graphical effects, jesus christ...

^ This

Have not heard this complaint in Coh3, but the commander choice is limited and no one is really playing 3v3 or 4v4 yet.

Oddly enough there are more 3v3 games logged in the latest patch than 2v2.