Relic and Org need to update their banning policies

That not game industry standard, that's trade/industry/whatever company standard. And bare with me but if tomorrow Microsoft release an update that wreck your Windows and all data stored... I have bad news for you.

I know. I am aware. It's reinforcing my point: Companies having power over your a product you already paid for can have very detrimental effects. Also good ones, but consumers should be protected from damage.

Relic has delivered a game that works and been willing to patch every bug they find and to continue to do so for a certain time as per industry standard. From that your opinion that what they delivered doesn't meet your expectation is on you. Steam gives you 2 hours to refund and I don't know how the code of sale generally apply to this particular kind of service sold

Yes, I fully agree to this. But that's not the topic. The topic is being denied usage after purchase. You make the purchase based on the current state of the software. But later (days/months/years), the company denies you access. This can be active blocking (ban), a new patch breaking the software, bankruptcy of some intermediate service platform (Steam) or simply them generally revoking all licenses because as you said they claim to have that right in their EULA.
To my knowledge there's been few cases about that, but I am also not a lawyer and this topic has a lot of intricacies and will depend on where you live. I fortunately live in a country where I can treat EULAs as toilet paper. I can imagine though that at least at my place courts could rule against software companies, at least to some degree. Their EULAs are not engraved law, and while they obviously want to dodge as many responsibilities as possible, they legally can't. Probably at least.

but I'm pretty sure that if you buy something, use it and don't like it afterward you're not going to get much from the vendor.

Not sure what you mean by "something". Software is very different from physical goods, especially if company-side patching is either necessary or even enforced for proper usage. Software like a game can't be "used up" or damaged by the customer. At the same time the customer might get full benefit from even short-term use or could easily copy the software illegally. On the other hand, it might be difficult to judge the usability or quality of the product before purchase, something that is at least to some degree possible with physical goods. Software sales can be exploited from both sides. These laws are usually codified also in a way that a customer can have reasonable expectations about a sold good regarding usability, e.g. the hammer you bought not breaking on first normal use or software working in the first place.
A software company being able to revoke your access to the software you already paid for might be such a point as well. And that's the point of Rosbone: He technically doesn't really know the reason, because no one at Relic told him. Relic made a claim that he did wrong, but doesn't tell when, what and where. Relic has all the leverage, the only way for Rosbone to find out is to take Relic to court. Which is exactly why most law systems focus on customer protection much more than protection of the company.

The entire thing

A) Nobody here genuinely thinks that women/trans people/minorities can't make good video games. At least I haven't seen any evidence of someone believing that. All I see is people saying Relic had poor priorities and that they didn't hire exclusively for merit. No one gives a fuck about what gender/race/orientation any of these people are. I could be mistaken but I see multiple people pointing out that's not what's they mean

B) Thinking that what people have been saying about Relic's hiring practices is anywhere near Rosbone posting ACTUAL PICTURES of the devs and asking what gender they were, is completely absurd. He went way over the line compared to anything else that's been said, and I'm not sure how you can possibly believe otherwise

So now you are guessing what other people in this forum think?

I suggest to you, that you ask them instead guessing.

In what has already been post there already thing that insulting to women.

So now you guessing what other people in this forum think?

Nope, I'm just reading their posts. If you think I'm guessing, what exactly is it that you're doing? Your hypocrisy never stops being amazing

I suggest you ask them instead guessing. In what has already been post there already thing that insulting to women.

Still haven't provided an example. I haven't seen what you're talking about

Yes or no, are these alleged posts worse than posting real pictures of the devs and commenting on their appearance? You didn't even address that part...

Vipper and Sky, please take the petty fights to PM.

Vipper and Sky, please take the petty fights to PM.

Apologies. Wouldn't want to degrade the sanctity of this thread...

But point taken

Vipper and Sky, please take the petty fights to PM.

FYI the same happened 2 weeks ago until another mod jumped in hid both Viper's and mine's posts (rightfully).

Vipper and Sky, please take the petty fights to PM.

Noted but I would rather not move this to PMs, I am not really interest in internet fights.

Apologies. Wouldn't want to degrade the sanctity of this thread...

But point taken

The thread is pretty all over the place already, but another he-said-she-said about another thread doesn't help. These tend to escalate quickly

One more post:

IpKai stated you can see peoples pronouns on LinkedIn. I have yet to see where. But I did notice something about a person that would have made me never make the bad post. I felt pretty strongly I had a handle on the situation and that no one would be hurt by the post. I did not just blindly make the post. Now I fear my guess was wrong.

So I actually deserve a double ban. Double demotion. As far as Org is concerned, I have been let off lightly. I dont even know why I was banned from Relic so I cant answer that question.

At the time of the post, we were all looking at peoples LinkedIn accounts. Because we were concerned about the people losing their jobs. No one wants this to happen ever, for any reason. Especially on a franchise we want to succeed.

With all of the variables I had, I was confident the post was pushing it but was valid in context. It was no different than what we were all doing already. And it was commentary on the world in general at this point in time.

When Relic has a video stream, peoples pictures are posted here. And people make comments. I bet you could say "That guy looks like a complete doofus! What a moron! I know he is the reason Coh3 sucks!" and not receive a ban. I was doing the opposite. I was saying these people are most likely smarter than I am, I do not suppose to judge their capabilities.

But I failed to realize two things:
1) Making the posts too funny. They were hard to understand. This opens you up to being banned because mods dont have time to figure this all out. Too much work to decide if it is valid or not.

2) As stated above, I felt this was one time posting someones image was ok. A very rare situation, never to be repeated. We were all already looking at them. It was not new information. And it is public information anyone can see. But I failed to recognize that posting an image at this juncture would open the door for pictures being posted in less clear situations in the future. And would just cause a spiraling down effect in future posts made by myself and others. As a mod, this has to be removed because it is like a cancer that will just grow.

My main goal is fun intelligent conversation. Never to harm anyone. And I dont mind pushing boundaries to find truths. But this time, I failed to see all of the variables.

If anyone from Relic was upset by the posts. I apologize.

Just as GBPirate has taken over as COH mapping guy. I will await one of you guys to take over as the funny guy who makes "unhinged" posts. Maybe Reverb was the hero we needed all along.

Rosbone you just can't please some people. Said people don't care what your excuse was for what you did. All they see is the red in the water. The other people who knew it was a joke and don't actually care don't harbor any ill-will towards you, I'm sure.

I mean, I can't be the only one who remembers the silly thread where you posted your school photo and had people make fun of it. It's pretty clear you're a "sticks and stones" kind of guy.

Reality is, you stepped on a landmine topic and mods know it's verboten, Relic especially, so you had to be made an example of.

Every other discerning individual should know you didn't mean it in anything other than a lighthearted way.

Rosbone you just can't please some people. Said people don't care what your excuse was for what you did. All they see is the red in the water. The other people who knew it was a joke and don't actually care don't harbor any ill-will towards you, I'm sure.

I mean, I can't be the only one who remembers the silly thread where you posted your school photo and had people make fun of it. It's pretty clear you're a "sticks and stones" kind of guy.

Reality is, you stepped on a landmine topic and mods know it's verboten, Relic especially, so you had to be made an example of.

Every other discerning individual should know you didn't mean it in anything other than a lighthearted way.

Welcome to the time of NPC, where trying to use humor is a criminal offense.

I am so glad I didn`t buy COH3. That`s all I can say as a response to Relic banning Rosebone, a guy that offered more value to them than their paid employees.

I also can`t believe some people think that making a joke about someone`s gender is enough to get banned. In what world are we living in? WTF?

I am so glad I didn`t buy COH3. That`s all I can say as a response to Relic banning Rosebone, a guy that offered more value to them than their paid employees.

I also can`t believe some people think that making a joke about someone`s gender is enough to get banned. In what world are we living in? WTF?

The one where you only interact with people in your discord because you can never know when the people on the internet are going to report you, half of the time baiting or being sore-losers, because the most punishable action in a video game is text-chat. This is most games now. People can grief you for 20 minutes in LoL, but if you say a naughty word, nobody is going to check the 0/15/3 teammate's actions, only the chat log.

I don't know how to solve the situation. I would say discord/steam/friends communities are the way if you want meaningful interactions. No automatic filter is going to catch you, nobody can report you for outside game communications, you decide what are the appropriate bounds, the "community" will take care of the trolls/leavers/ragers/jetengine microphones by simply not playing with those people.

RELIC BASED DISCUSSION
Another issue with not telling people how long they are banned is the ban is supposed to teach people the rules. This is meant to curb bad behavior and make the community better overall.

If someone is malicious and you have given them no term limit on a ban, they could assume they are perma-banned. And once perma-banned, there is no reason for them to stop the bad behavior. And now Relic would have no power to stop their behavior.

I still feel it would be best to give a reason and time limit. This encourages bad actors to learn and have a cool down period.

If you ban someone and they feel they should not have been banned, they may go into scorched earth mode. "Why be nice now, I was not treated nicely."

Counter arguments:
- If a person is an asshole enough to go scorched earth, good riddance. But this denies the person a cool down period and a chance to learn and become better at dealing with issues and people.

- If someone is told they are perma-banned they will go scorched earth because they have no cool down. By not telling them, they get a small cool down period.

Just another random thought. Still trying to see this from all angles.

Does Salt Expire?

The shelf life of salt depends on its type and how it’s stored. Generally speaking, regular table salt has an indefinite shelf life, meaning it won’t expire but its minerals may break down over time. This is because salt is a very stable mineral with very low water content, making it difficult for bacteria to grow.

People discussing historical accuracy in the other thread *rolls eyes*, so I have to clown somewhere else.

People discussing historical accuracy in the other thread *rolls eyes*, so I have to clown somewhere else.

Enlightening post monsieur Fanta. If only there was a way to harvest it.