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How to save CoH3 from disaster ???

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Grumpy
26 May 2023, 06:07 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2023, 16:55 PMMajorBloodnok



I guess it comes down to how you might want to present a company for sale. If you have some workers apparently working on a new project as well as a core title just launched but ripe for improvement and exploration, maybe it might appeal to e.g. Smoking Gun?





This could be. If they are planning on selling it, they might want to make it look like it isn't gutted. I don't think that will work especially well considering that any company that buys them would normally want sales numbers anyway.

My first job out of college was with a company that was managed into bankruptcy and then bought by a Japanese firm. I'll never understand why, but the Japanese left the same managers in charge that put it into bankruptcy and they continued managing the same way. A similar thing happened to one of my relatives in a different industry. Maybe it's a cultural thing?
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donofsandiego
26 May 2023, 06:49 AM
#22
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Posts: 1378

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 06:00 AMGrumpy
I still think the problem with pitbulls is more the owner than anything else.


The breed was literally created for fighting other dogs for sport. Yes, training is important, but the breed is predisposed to aggression in the same way that a bloodhound has a better sense of smell than its peers. It's not always just "environmental conditions", although the world would certainly be a better place if it was. Bottom line? You can train a pitbull to be nice, but an untrained pitbull is more likely to be aggressive than an untrained Golden Retriever would be.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
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Katitof
26 May 2023, 07:16 AM
#23
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

But #1 will do absolutely nothing for multiplayer, at least the matchmaking part, which is driving wheels of CoH.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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blvckdream
26 May 2023, 09:07 AM
#24
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 06:49 AMdonofsandiego


The breed was literally created for fighting other dogs for sport. Yes, training is important, but the breed is predisposed to aggression in the same way that a bloodhound has a better sense of smell than its peers. It's not always just "environmental conditions", although the world would certainly be a better place if it was. Bottom line? You can train a pitbull to be nice, but an untrained pitbull is more likely to be aggressive than an untrained Golden Retriever would be.


The term Pitbull is already misleading. There is no breed called Pitbull.

https://www.arlboston.org/5-facts-about-pit-bull-type-dogs/#:~:text=FACT%3A%20The%20%E2%80%9CPit%20Bull%E2%80%9D%20is%20not%20an%20official%20breed.&text=Many%20dogs%20that%20are%20classified,which%20bear%20some%20physical%20resemblance.

There is the American Pit Bull Terrier but many of the dogs people call Pitbulls today aren`t actually American Pit Bull Terriers. The article explains this. "Pitbull" is an umbrella term and most of the dogs covered by it are a combination of mixed breed dogs that look a certain way.

And as the article also explains, many "Pitbulls" were bred as family dogs, not for fighting.
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aerafield
26 May 2023, 10:46 AM
#25
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Here we are, on a CoH gaming forum discussing dog breeds and whether they're dangerous or not since 1 page already :snfPeter:
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Hannibal
26 May 2023, 10:51 AM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 10:46 AMaerafield
Here we are, on a CoH gaming forum discussing dog breeds and whether they're dangerous or not since 1 page already :snfPeter:

That's how you know that the latest CoH game has flopped.
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Rosbone
26 May 2023, 11:41 AM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 10:51 AMHannibal
That's how you know that the latest CoH game has flopped.

Coh3 is so dead. And the people that need to pull up their boots and wade into the shit are not up to the task. Even if the easy stuff gets fixed in the next 6-9 months, how long will it be before the broken ass worldbuilder gets fixed? Before pathing isn't trash? It looks like years is the answer. Who wants to play an alpha with no maps for years?

SERIOUSLY
The only way to save Coh3, is to stop playing Coh3 and go back to Coh2. Relic needs to go back to supporting the game that works for another year. Right now it is bleeding from vCoh, Coh2, and Coh3. Stop the bleeding is the first part of triage.

Anything else is pure



The only thing that might change my mind is if the next announcement has some heavy goals laid out for the next patch. And it cant be 2 months away. And it cant be some little piddly shit anyone could do in a few days. Get to work people. Play time is over.
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Gdot
26 May 2023, 13:11 PM
#28
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What its like to work at Relic:

"working" at Relic

Obviously this isn't Relic but we can assume its not far off.

Lets not forget Relic won the "best places to work" in Canada 2022.

They won the 'health and well being award' in Canada for 2022.

COO Heidi Eaves won the best boss award in all of Canada for her Work/Life balance (you win this award by being favored heavily on the life side) and her 'COMPASSION DURING THE COVID-19 pandemic." whatever the fuck that means.

Source for mouth breathers (fantoschmuck)

https://www.sega.co.jp/en/release/221107_1.html
https://www.sega.co.jp/en/release/211118_1.html

Now, im all for a balance but you sure as shit better be taking care of business before playing BOARD GAMES and other ridiculous bullshit you are doing at 'work' The culture at Relic needs to change if its not too late already.



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aerafield
26 May 2023, 15:24 PM
#29
avatar of aerafield

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jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 11:41 AMRosbone

SERIOUSLY
The only way to save Coh3, is to stop playing Coh3 and go back to Coh2. Relic needs to go back to supporting the game that works for another year. Right now it is bleeding from vCoh, Coh2, and Coh3. Stop the bleeding is the first part of triage.


Sorry but this is complete & utter nonsense. Not only would this make 0 profits and be a waste of effort for Relic, it also wouldn't save this franchise for shit.

The only way to save CoH is if Relic actually starts fixing the massive content hole in CoH3 SOOOOON. Release new maps every month, announce new battlegroups & gamemodes. Relic also needs to stop with this damn radio silence which leads to everyone thinking that they're not doing anything relevant.

And yes, next week's announcement better be genuine & hopeful. If they still act like it's all rainbows & roses in CoH3 a week after this massive layoff and with 0 acknowledgement that CoH3 has issues and low content in MP, I'm losing my mind :snfPeter:
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Grumpy
26 May 2023, 15:46 PM
#30
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Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 10:46 AMaerafield
Here we are, on a CoH gaming forum discussing dog breeds and whether they're dangerous or not since 1 page already :snfPeter:


The "everything is wonderful" statements and interviews from Relic don't give us a great sense that anyone at Relic realizes the actual situation. They see the great reviews by the "professional" game reviewers and think they've done a good job. In short, they made the Pit Bull more interesting than their game. Sorry
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Grumpy
26 May 2023, 16:07 PM
#31
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 13:11 PMGdot
What its like to work at Relic:

"working" at Relic

Obviously this isn't Relic but we can assume its not far off.

Lets not forget Relic won the "best places to work" in Canada 2022.

They won the 'health and well being award' in Canada for 2022.

COO Heidi Eaves won the best boss award in all of Canada for her Work/Life balance (you win this award by being favored heavily on the life side) and her 'COMPASSION DURING THE COVID-19 pandemic." whatever the fuck that means.

Source for mouth breathers (fantoschmuck)

https://www.sega.co.jp/en/release/221107_1.html
https://www.sega.co.jp/en/release/211118_1.html

Now, im all for a balance but you sure as shit better be taking care of business before playing BOARD GAMES and other ridiculous bullshit you are doing at 'work' The culture at Relic needs to change if its not too late already.



This reminds me of a situation at work where I was buying a software package at work. We met weekly with the sales manager and the main developer. After a couple weeks, I could see that the developer wasn't really doing anything, except maybe for an hour or so right before the meeting and sometimes not even then. I'm sure that the developer thought he had great work/life balance. The problem was that the software was missing necessary features. I ended up having to contact the sales manager and politely explain the situation and consequences if a change wasn't made. At the next meeting, they commented about how hard they had to work, but they did show up with the problems fixed. It seems like Relic needs someone who can do something similar to what the sales manager did.

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Rosbone
26 May 2023, 16:08 PM
#32
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Posts: 2143 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 15:24 PMaerafield
The only way to save CoH is if Relic actually starts fixing the massive content hole in CoH3 SOOOOON. Release new maps every month, announce new battlegroups & gamemodes. Relic also needs to stop with this damn radio silence which leads to everyone thinking that they're not doing anything relevant.

I agree, this is what NEEDS to happen. We also know that this will NEVER happen. Those ding dongs are gonna sit and pretend all is well and drag Coh3 out for another 2 years. As they should, since they will have jobs longer that way.

Meanwhile, no one but 1v1 players are playing Coh at all. Coh3 above 1v1 is dead. Coh2 is doing OK but not great.

Putting out another Coh2 patch with a couple maps and meta change might bring back some people who are busy playing other stuff right now. And a single Coh2 patch is nothing for them to do.

This would maybe get some of the old hardcore players back to being interested in Coh at all. And would buy time for them to actually finish this alpha they are calling Coh3.

Aerafield, as a high ranking player that is not playing Coh3, what would get you interested in the franchise again? Knowing that Coh3 will be boring as shit for the next 6 months. What will make you want to play tomorrow?
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aerafield
26 May 2023, 17:00 PM
#33
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 16:08 PMRosbone



Aerafield, as a high ranking player that is not playing Coh3, what would get you interested in the franchise again? Knowing that Coh3 will be boring as shit for the next 6 months. What will make you want to play tomorrow?


A massive map pack with at least 5 new 4v4/3v3 maps :guyokay: It won't happen anytime soon but one can dream... :guyokay:

Don't think any patch could make me want to go back to CoH2. It would also send some weird signals that Relic abanonded CoH3
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Grumpy
26 May 2023, 17:58 PM
#34
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Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 17:00 PMaerafield



Don't think any patch could make me want to go back to CoH2. It would also send some weird signals that Relic abanonded CoH3


I've been gaming since Pong and don't think I've ever seen a company abandon their latest release and go back to an earlier one. I doubt the franchise would survive that. Niche genres like COH basically bet the franchise on each new release.

There was a game I used to like called MechCommander that had similar player numbers to COH and had a lot of the same characteristics. It only took one bad release to kill it. Microsoft buying Relic won't help. They also bought FASA, which made MechCommander, and supervised the release that killed it. If it isn't Flight Simulator, or some type of word game, they don't seem good at it (in regards to games).
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donofsandiego
26 May 2023, 18:35 PM
#35
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Posts: 1378

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 17:58 PMGrumpy


I've been gaming since Pong and don't think I've ever seen a company abandon their latest release and go back to an earlier one. I doubt the franchise would survive that.


Running With Scissors

Long story short, Postal 3 (what's the deal with threes in gaming?) was such a massive flop they ended up releasing DLC for Postal 2 implying that all of Postal 3 was a hallucination from a comatose M.C.

They're now in the process of developing Postal 4.

EDIT: It probably helped that they released a no-nonsense PR statement, about how they genuinely fucked up, and encouraged players not to buy Postal 3 because it was so bad. (There was some kind of issue where they had another studio develop the game, but they didn't want to update it and RWS wasn't able to or something. Can't remember correctly.)
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
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Grumpy
26 May 2023, 20:48 PM
#36
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Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2023, 18:35 PMdonofsandiego


Running With Scissors

Lol - that used to be my online name. Can't live up to that 25 years later so I'm just Grumpy.
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WhiteFlash
27 May 2023, 05:12 AM
#37
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jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2023, 12:09 PMnigo
1. Enable full modding again, like CoH1

2. Pickup some Community maps and the balance mod (rebalance tuning pack) in Steam Workshop

3. Hire Janne252 for codding replay, obs mode and other sutff

4. Hire Inverse for gameplay designer and Whiteflash for mapping designer

5. Hire AmiPolizeiFunk and AE for Community managers.

6. Profit again.


An interesting plan. Unfortunately, Relic didnt approach me for mapping, even though I made it clear repeatedly I was open to helping...and I've said for years (see coh3 articles I wrote) the game has to be tight on release, but it wasnt. To try and recover from the unfinished state its in is double tough.

I wish Relic luck.
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Katitof
27 May 2023, 07:32 AM
#38
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Every single developer dreams of recovery like No Mans Sky had, while every single publisher believes its OK to release the game in No Mans Sky release state, while lacking any kind of support and commitment to fix it.

6 months to 1 year, that's the lifespan of "life service games we will support for next 10 years", I'm really curious to see if it'll be any different for CoH3, but the trend is not promising much here.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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