bersglieri and other lethal Italians

why do these troops seem to be invincible while dishing out massive damage ?

Invincible against which unit and in which conditions?

against USF. firing out of cover, absolutely decimating any and all units with flamethrowers, while taking very little damage from units firing from cover.

I didn't want to say anything, but these guys are breaking coh mechanics. They are winning or at least stalemating engagements at a disadvantage. Meaning, they can fight in open cover against troops in heavy cover with at least a neutral outcome, but forcing a retreat happens. It's sort of understanding for the G-unit flamers, but those guys can solo multiple squads taking little to no damage.

I recently learned that they have armor values, which is funny because Relic eliminated armored infantry in almost all coh2 units that had them and instead gave them Matrix Agent received accuracy 1.5 or whatever. So they are dodging bullets instead of stopping them.

I didn't want to say anything, but these guys are breaking coh mechanics. They are winning or at least stalemating engagements at a disadvantage. Meaning, they can fight in open cover against troops in heavy cover with at least a neutral outcome, but forcing a retreat happens. It's sort of understanding for the G-unit flamers, but those guys can solo multiple squads taking little to no damage.

I recently learned that they have armor values, which is funny because Relic eliminated armored infantry in almost all coh2 units that had them and instead gave them Matrix Agent received accuracy 1.5 or whatever. So they are dodging bullets instead of stopping them.

Keyword "almost" all units. Shocktroops, the close range specialist elite troops, got to keep the armor. I wouldn't have issues with guastatori having armor if their models gave any indication they should have it + they didn't have a fuckin' flamer. Lmao. They are 440 manpower per squad after all.

I don't think that allied elite squads at the same price perform the same as they do though. Those flamers are absolutely brutal.

At least in CoH2's release, the flamers were insanely lethal but also incredibly volatile. They could apparently kill the squad if the model with the flamethrower died and you got a bad RNG roll. Here they're incredibly lethal, they get two, and there is zero risk to using them besides having to get to mid range. Lol.

why do these troops seem to be invincible while dishing out massive damage ?

Because you try to fighting them in negative cover, with engineers, at max range.

They lose to 60mp cheaper rifles, badly.

why do these troops seem to be invincible while dishing out massive damage ?

No idea what makes you believe that Bersaglieri are invincible but the Guastatori have 1.25 body armor so they're a little tankier vs small arms fire

against USF. firing out of cover, absolutely decimating any and all units with flamethrowers, while taking very little damage from units firing from cover.

I can't speak for Bersaglieri, they seemed alright combat wise to me in my very limited use of them. Lack of a snare (or even threat of a snare) put me off them a lot. But I'm a big believer in the scaling power of Panzergrens.

Guastatori well, they do indeed give pioneers a good name. However in 20+ games of them I've not had one post-nerf where they've felt invincible, esp since Allied mainlines will have a bit of a vet advantage due to 2CP timing. Getting models picked off is to be expected, making you pick your fights carefully. The usual Britblob contains AT boys who make your armour feel nonexistent. Obviously if an Allied player 1v1 Guastatori then they'll get stomped and they should since Guastatori have 440MP, 40MP reinforce cost.

Not sure why you seem to think cover works against flamethrowers? If anything you take more damage because your men are all bunched up together tightly and flamers ignore cover. Historically they even do bonus damage to garrisons.

I do see a lot of ppl dive vehicles onto vet I of them, but that's your own fault for what comes next (AT satchel).

Because you try to fighting them in negative cover, with engineers, at max range.

They lose to 60mp cheaper rifles, badly.

Have we played against each other ? Yes, I have tried engineers, infantry, MGs...at max range, CQC range, behind cover and out of cover. I stand by what I said.

I can't speak for Bersaglieri, they seemed alright combat wise to me in my very limited use of them. Lack of a snare (or even threat of a snare) put me off them a lot. But I'm a big believer in the scaling power of Panzergrens.

Guastatori well, they do indeed give pioneers a good name. However in 20+ games of them I've not had one post-nerf where they've felt invincible, esp since Allied mainlines will have a bit of a vet advantage due to 2CP timing. Getting models picked off is to be expected, making you pick your fights carefully. The usual Britblob contains AT boys who make your armour feel nonexistent. Obviously if an Allied player 1v1 Guastatori then they'll get stomped and they should since Guastatori have 440MP, 40MP reinforce cost.

Not sure why you seem to think cover works against flamethrowers? If anything you take more damage because your men are all bunched up together tightly and flamers ignore cover. Historically they even do bonus damage to garrisons.

I do see a lot of ppl dive vehicles onto vet I of them, but that's your own fault for what comes next (AT satchel).

Absolutely. Yes, flames maximize against cover. I know this, but what I'm saying is, it doesn't seem to matter what the circumstances are, these guys are beasts; my opinion seems at least somewhat supported by the fact that they are an overwhelmingly popular unit in team games. Not to mention- flames, body armour, AT satchels, what ?

Most annoying fact from Guastatori is the trap. Like automatic Demo.
Bersaglieri is 440mp, and scaling pretty well in every stage (fuck non vet sprint).

team games.

There's your problem. Are you sure they weren't out-blobbing you? There's not much a single unsupported MG can do against three guastatori in the face. Same thing with riflemen. If they have the numbers advantage, carnage is to be expected.

If you want to take the high road, always use two MGs together to suppress infantry blobs. If not, then you need to blob back lol. US riflemen blob gets free suppressive fire ability at vet 1, so they'll stomp guastatori if you tech grenades too. Not much they can do but tank the nades or retreat under threat of losing too much manpower.

There's your problem. Are you sure they weren't out-blobbing you? There's not much a single unsupported MG can do against three guastatori in the face. Same thing with riflemen. If they have the numbers advantage, carnage is to be expected.

If you want to take the high road, always use two MGs together to suppress infantry blobs. If not, then you need to blob back lol. US riflemen blob gets free suppressive fire ability at vet 1, so they'll stomp guastatori if you tech grenades too. Not much they can do but tank the nades or retreat under threat of losing too much manpower.

good point. yes, this typically would happen with 1-3 gus squads.

Most annoying fact from Guastatori is the trap. Like automatic Demo.
Bersaglieri is 440mp, and scaling pretty well in every stage (fuck non vet sprint).

guastatori cost 440mp, bersaglieri cost 320mp

guastatori cost 440mp, bersaglieri cost 320mp

Oof my bad, still.

US Sniper will bleed these units heavily and if the Dak player is having to spend all his MP on reinforcing these expensive infantry you will delay him indefinitely from getting any tanks.

Absolutely. Yes, flames maximize against cover. I know this, but what I'm saying is, it doesn't seem to matter what the circumstances are, these guys are beasts; my opinion seems at least somewhat supported by the fact that they are an overwhelmingly popular unit in team games. Not to mention- flames, body armour, AT satchels, what ?

Ok I take back the cover comment.


I would suggest a different perception of them. When you see a Guastatori squad, they're like 2 flamesapper squads, but are more dangerous as they come later (2 vs 0) and have higher reinforce cost(40 vs 22). Still 440MP vs 2x220=440MP and 90FU vs 2x50=100FU for the flamers. 8 men unarmoured vs 6 men with 1.25 armour. Now I don't think you'd want to keep inf near two flamer squads unless you seriously outnumbered them with inf with proper anti-inf firepower. Or a lot of long range firepower like LMGs etc. I come across a lot of ppl who see one squad and then think they can go toe-to-toe with them, when they'd usually soft retreat vs 2 flamers.

AT satchel range is maybe 5 or 6? Kinda deserve them landing if you get that close with a vehicle. Only available from vet 1 too.

It's prob easier for ppl who fought against shocktroops a lot in COH2, as they are familiar with this kind of matchup, minus flamers but with more durable men.

Of course, problems arise vs experienced users who know how to maximise the smoke and atk-ground, but that's a story for another day.

I could see the Gusta losing the AT satchel, so it keeps them as elite AI.

I could see the Gusta losing the AT satchel, so it keeps them as elite AI.

Lose the AT satchel and give them something cool like demo charge, normal satchel, or mine.

Ok I take back the cover comment.


I would suggest a different perception of them. When you see a Guastatori squad, they're like 2 flamesapper squads, but are more dangerous as they come later (2 vs 0) and have higher reinforce cost(40 vs 22). Still 440MP vs 2x220=440MP and 90FU vs 2x50=100FU for the flamers. 8 men unarmoured vs 6 men with 1.25 armour. Now I don't think you'd want to keep inf near two flamer squads unless you seriously outnumbered them with inf with proper anti-inf firepower. Or a lot of long range firepower like LMGs etc. I come across a lot of ppl who see one squad and then think they can go toe-to-toe with them, when they'd usually soft retreat vs 2 flamers.

AT satchel range is maybe 5 or 6? Kinda deserve them landing if you get that close with a vehicle. Only available from vet 1 too.

It's prob easier for ppl who fought against shocktroops a lot in COH2, as they are familiar with this kind of matchup, minus flamers but with more durable men.

Of course, problems arise vs experienced users who know how to maximise the smoke and atk-ground, but that's a story for another day.

Yes, this is true. I think what I was really surprised by are the flames; which, when combined with the armour, make them very dangerous. Not knowing the numbers off-hand, it seems like flames do more damage in this game. I have learned many lessons so far, some of them are what you describe- don't go toe to toe, 2xMG, sniper, mines... lessons that were abundant in CoH2, but became apparent extremely early in this game, with this unit.