Hotfix 1.0.5 - March 6, 2023

Cool, after abusing Boys AT rifles and blobbing Tommies, we now have Stuart spam an scoped Lee Enfields spam.

And in addition, DAK has to pay even more manpower for their units which got even worse on top.

Good job Relic!

I could just about get my head around most of the DAK nerfs. But I did find the panzergren one really surprising, even if it is a pretty minor one. TBH i expected that they'd make them a bit cheaper manpower wise, given their performance. But then, maybe i'm missing something.

Maybe they actually scale really well and i'm just not seeing it? As most games dont tend to last that long.

Trying to figure out how you're supposed to play DAK now.

I could just about get my head around most of the DAK nerfs. But I did find the panzergren one really surprising, even if it is a pretty minor one. TBH i expected that they'd make them a bit cheaper manpower wise, given their performance. But then, maybe i'm missing something.

Maybe they actually scale really well and i'm just not seeing it? As most games dont tend to last that long.

We all anticipated PGs to get slightly cheaper, but relic thought somehow they needed a nerf.

I would -LOVE- to see all these 4v4 blobfest games they have based their DAK PG and Jager nerfs, while wehr
shreck jagers remained untouched.

We all anticipated PGs to get slightly cheaper, but relic thought somehow they needed a nerf.

I would -LOVE- to see all these 4v4 blobfest games they have based their DAK PG and Jager nerfs, while wehr
shreck jagers remained untouched.

Shreck Jagers are and were a tasty snack for Riflemen blob even pre-patch so no issue there. You've never seen a DAK PG blob? Well I've played plenty of games against them, it's a shame that the replays are broken now

Shreck Jagers are and were a tasty snack for Riflemen blob even pre-patch so no issue there. You've never seen a DAK PG blob? Well I've played plenty of games against them, it's a shame that the replays are broken now

No, at ~100-150 rank everyone is using bersaligeries and each time I tried it myself, I found myself being outnumbered and brutalized, mostly by brits.

No, at ~100-150 rank everyone is using bersaligeries and each time I tried it myself, I found myself being outnumbered and brutalized, mostly by brits.

Oh I know, I was at rank 103 for a while in 4v4. Still, I saw a couple of players with the pgren blob. They're both a pain to deal with.

I'm talking 2s, PG blob gets you killed there.

Current meta is:

USF: Pathfinders > (sniper optional) > zook paras > sherman76
BRIT: Lee tommys blob > (Stuart/Humber optional) > upgraded crusader spam

Both strats are disgusting to play with or against, its just so easy...

Special mention to how strong bersaglieri is with permanent sprint and run and gun 2xBredas, its almost brainless.

Jaggers with shrecks still reliably kill infantry (they better be, because they otherwise cant effectively trade with 2xBAR rifles) Wehr T2 >>>>>>>>>>>> Wehr T3

Seems like the game promotes spamming a single type of unit instead of having a diverse army composition...which is..not good


PD: Panther and EZ8 still crap

You're not supposed to cap the 2-3 fuel points right outside your base for permanent bonus fuel cheese that the enemy cannot contest. That was never the intent behind this ability.



Stop shooting it at max-range into the fog of war against random targets and you will see better results with a rocket arty that costs 0 fuel

That's a lot of assumptions you are making. I suggest you build a Nebelwerfer and see for yourself. Even direct hits don't kill infantry models and the flame damage only sets in if your opponent doesn't simply move the infantry out of it (not even retreat but move the unit 3 meters). So I stand by it: The Nebenwerfer is shit.

Current meta is:

USF: Pathfinders > (sniper optional) > zook paras > sherman76
BRIT: Lee tommys blob > (Stuart/Humber optional) > upgraded crusader spam

Both strats are disgusting to play with or against, its just so easy...

Special mention to how strong bersaglieri is with permanent sprint and run and gun 2xBredas, its almost brainless.

Jaggers with shrecks still reliably kill infantry (they better be, because they otherwise cant effectively trade with 2xBAR rifles) Wehr T2 >>>>>>>>>>>> Wehr T3

Seems like the game promotes spamming a single type of unit instead of having a diverse army composition...which is..not good


PD: Panther and EZ8 still crap

Mostly not wrong sadly. Paths (or at least early game performance) needs nerfed. Not sure how much of Path spam is just because US struggles otherwise. (God forbid they nerf 76 crutch)

Bersaglieri sprint needs to be a timed ability - so stupid that a game predicated on map control has mainline unit that can cap up the map faster than other factions. PZ Gren early game needs improved so Bersaglieri don't feel somewhat mandatory.

AI specialists can deal with Shrek Jaegers just fine - I think it's more the shrek being overtuned- mediums can't (or very rarely) bounce them and even a couple can threaten Churchills. It's just Shrek Volk blob deja vu for all the same reasons that was cancer. Panzergrens are very solid but anti-everything blob >>>> AT gun combined arms tier.

Medium tank spam in general just seems way too efficient. Crusaders are probably too cheap but rest of Brit tank roster is actually usable if less efficient. PZ3 scale so well with upgrades that you don't have a reason to go for Armor Reserves unless you're so far ahead in resources that it doesn't matter. 76 Sherman dominates Panzer 3/4 so hard without sacrificing AI that it's a no brainer. Regular Sherman HE shells wreck infantry way harder than Dozer can ever dream of. Brumbar isn't enough of an AI specialist to justify going for over faster PZ4 generalist. Medium tank swarms mean going for rocket arty is suicide and it has no place in 1v1 unless you're playing a turtler.

Don't get me wrong... I freaking love the medium tank combat in COH3 it's often frenetic and fun as hell but I'd like to not feel punished if I want to build something other than medium tank spam...

What paths need is price increase. They are dirty cheap, they should at least cost around 230-240, considering how they can just overwhelm you in early game and 2 of them can fight pretty much any set-up early into the game by sheer numbers.

By the time you can field light vehicle, unless enemy gave up fighting completely, you already can have zook paras. And because you skip T1, you can just go for quad-mount or howi M5, via mech support (which is meta).

*Also rifle nade should be nerfed for both tommies and pathfinders, because it feels like its much more powerful then a regular nade.

*76mm sherman is also just insane. Its probably should be more AT orientated tank, possibly even separately build, ones unlocked. Or be a free upgrade for shermans.

*UK tommies at very least, need a price increase from 260 to around 270-280 MP, since they are by far the best infantry in the game.

*Wehr should require to have T2a or b, to get access to T3. Right now, even with price increase they can get P4 faster then any other faction, especially considering that you can pretty much have no fuel expenses what so ever, besides maybe going for Luftwaffe combat group, which is still insanely cost effective. This is especially true, because they are basically the only faction in the game, which can get their healing without spending any fuel, so you are always at least 20 or so fuel ahead of your enemy.

*DAK is all over the place right now. Basically whole faction is on life support by Italian combined arms battle group.

Jager squads also need a bit of a nerf more specifically the Shrek upgrade, it kinda reminds me of the old volks good ai and great at.

First of all which mode are you playing? If 1v1 then you're probably right and you can dismiss what I'm saying, if not then most of what you're saying is complete rubbish I'm sorry

What paths need is price increase. They are dirty cheap, they should at least cost around 230-240, considering how they can just overwhelm you in early game and 2 of them can fight pretty much any set-up early into the game by sheer numbers.

Pathfinders are literally the 3-man Scout squad with one extra soldier, the utility package and a rifle-nade. They lose hard vs charging DAK Pgrens and they are also pretty much defenseless vs Grenadiers + Sniper support. Yeah they give you a lot of map control in the first 5min but then they fall apart like wet paper, unless you're fighting vs a clueless opponent who just builds 2 MGs + grens and hopes for the best

By the time you can field light vehicle, unless enemy gave up fighting completely, you already can have zook paras. And because you skip T1, you can just go for quad-mount or howi M5, via mech support (which is meta).

What LV are we talking about here? The Flakvierling is on par with the quad flak and zook paras can be easily avoided by a mobile suppression platform if you give it some sight. As Wehr it's a bit harder but you could just cope with 1-2 schreck jaegers until tanks arrive. And if he builds the 57mm HT and you don't build a LV, then he just wasted resources for nothing.

*76mm sherman is also just insane. Its probably should be more AT orientated tank, possibly even separately build, ones unlocked. Or be a free upgrade for shermans.

The 76mm sherman is the one single thing that US got going for them that could be called overpowered, but it's very expensive hence arriving at a very late stage of the game and it forces you to go 1 specific support center.

*UK tommies at very least, need a price increase from 260 to around 270-280 MP, since they are by far the best infantry in the game.

DAK Pgrens with CA beat tommies under pretty much all circumstances

*DAK is all over the place right now. Basically whole faction is on life support by Italian combined arms battle group.

While Italian CA is arguably the best DAK doctrine at the moment, saying that the faction is "on life support" without it is complete BS. Pgrens with CA have the best stats across all mainline inf squads (and in 2v2-4v4 it's certainly not hard to park a 250 or flakvierling near your grens), they have a non-doctrinal nuke heavy mortar, a dirt-cheap 90 meters scout vehicle and most importantly: The ridiculously strong Armory upgrades that turn your tanks into the best of the game

First of all which mode are you playing? If 1v1 then you're probably right and you can dismiss what I'm saying, if not then most of what you're saying is complete rubbish I'm sorry

All of them. Mostly teamgames. What you are saying, sounds more like you are either playing a pre-mades or against noobs honestly. All you are talking about, is basically dragging the game into a late mid or late game or basically out-playing your opponent, which competent allied player wont allow you to do or at least he will be snowballing like crazy. We already got this "gitgud and rush this particular green cover on this particular map" approach in balancing CoH2, thank you very much.

Pathfinders are literally the 3-man Scout squad with one extra soldier, the utility package and a rifle-nade. They lose hard vs charging DAK Pgrens and they are also pretty much defenseless vs Grenadiers + Sniper support. Yeah they give you a lot of map control in the first 5min but then they fall apart like wet paper, unless you're fighting vs a clueless opponent who just builds 2 MGs + grens and hopes for the best

By the time US player have 4 paths, you have 1 PG, 1 ST and 250. I fail to see how you will be charging 4 or even 3 paths with your PGs. As for gren sniper, nothing stops US player to either use their own sniper (since going paths with T1 is pointless) or just use vet 1 ability to catch sniper. On top of that, US player will for sure just be sitting somewhere doing nothing, letting Wehr player get grens and sniper out.

What LV are we talking about here? The Flakvierling is on par with the quad flak and zook paras can be easily avoided by a mobile suppression platform if you give it some sight.

If we consider that you are not playing against an idiot, you most likely wont win early engagements before your flak HT. Zooks here are simply to zone you out, not letting you use flak aggressively.

The 76mm sherman is the one single thing that US got going for them that could be called overpowered, but it's very expensive hence arriving at a very late stage of the game and it forces you to go 1 specific support center.

How is it expensive? Not only you are not forced to pick it before your first sherman, if you do, it arrives minute or two later then wehr P4.

DAK Pgrens with CA beat tommies under pretty much all circumstances

Like you will be fighting 1 un-upgraded tommie under CA early game.

While Italian CA is arguably the best DAK doctrine at the moment, saying that the faction is "on life support" without it is complete BS. Pgrens with CA have the best stats across all mainline inf squads (and in 2v2-4v4 it's certainly not hard to park a 250 or flakvierling near your grens), they have a non-doctrinal nuke heavy mortar, a dirt-cheap 90 meters scout vehicle and most importantly: The ridiculously strong Armory upgrades that turn your tanks into the best of the game

No-one cares about CA or how their armor becomes the best one in the game, if competent allied players just let you win early game, because you are at constant disadvantage via units on the field.

By the time US player have 4 paths, you have 1 PG, 1 ST and 250. I fail to see how you will be charging 4 or even 3 paths with your PGs. As for gren sniper, nothing stops US player to either use their own sniper (since going paths with T1 is pointless) or just use vet 1 ability to catch sniper. On top of that, US player will for sure just be sitting somewhere doing nothing, letting Wehr player get grens and sniper out.


No-one cares about CA

No wonder you're struggling with DAK if you take such horrendous engagements and under-estimate CA. You can simply go Pgren ---> Pgren ---> 250 at the beginning. With flamerpio - 250 + double CA pgrens at min 4 you can do an extremely oppressive push that is only stoppable right now if you play vs a USF player that rushed riflemen nades... which means he went riflemen and they kinda suck in teamgames atm.

You don't have to attack the frontline sectors at all costs from the beginning like a donkey, simply pull out with your Panzerpios or Pgren if you see 4 pathfinders or 2-3 sections. And wait until you have the 4 units mentioned above ready and then push all of them together.

Panzergren combined arms provides +20% accuracy, movement speed, ability range and -20% received accuracy, it literally turns them from Conscripts into vet 2 Penal Battalions from the get go. If you don't utilize this feature then just stop playing DAK because you're playing this faction completely wrong. And again, after 5+min into the game it's not that crazy hard to park a 250 or flakvierling near your Pgren "blob" (2 squads is ideal number, vs hardcore spammers you need 3; DAK is about vehicle snowballing and not inf spam) and Heal Truck + weapon teams

And no, I'm not farming randumbs as an arranged team. Apart from the launch-weekend I am mostly spamming pure random games, sometimes team of 2 4v4's

https://coh3stats.com/players/1447?view=recentMatches

No wonder you're struggling with DAK if you take such horrendous engagements and under-estimate CA. You can simply go Pgren ---> Pgren ---> 250 at the beginning. With flamerpio - 250 + double CA pgrens at min 4 you can do an extremely oppressive push that is only stoppable right now if you play vs a USF player that rushed riflemen nades... which means he went riflemen and they kinda suck in teamgames atm.

So to rephrase it, DAK is having early powerspike, which on its own possible because enemy don't have counters to it. For me this is called struggling, because this is CoH2 all over again, where you are forced to play in one particular way in order to have your ground. And its not similar to a wehr situation, where other options are still alright, but Luft was just the strongest of them therefore always picked.

As for counters, idk, UKF can have IS+IS+rifle nades or Dingo+IS+rifle nades. Dingo is destroying 250 super hard and getting nades early isnt hurting UK economy over-all. While PGs under CA is a bit stronger, green to green cover its still a long stalemate. Not to mention that boys are bugged vs LVs right now.

Panzergren combined arms provides +20% accuracy, movement speed, ability range and -20% received accuracy, it literally turns them from Conscripts into vet 2 Penal Battalions from the get go. If you don't utilize this feature then just stop playing DAK because you're playing this faction completely wrong.
https://coh3stats.com/players/1447?view=recentMatches

I see it the other way around, a 300mp unit that is hampered from 1/3 of its stats until/unless you park a 260mp unit with low value around it.

So to rephrase it, DAK is having early powerspike, which on its own possible because enemy don't have counters to it. For me this is called struggling, because this is CoH2 all over again, where you are forced to play in one particular way in order to have your ground. And its not similar to a wehr situation, where other options are still alright, but Luft was just the strongest of them therefore always picked.

As for counters, idk, UKF can have IS+IS+rifle nades or Dingo+IS+rifle nades. Dingo is destroying 250 super hard and getting nades early isnt hurting UK economy over-all. While PGs under CA is a bit stronger, green to green cover its still a long stalemate. Not to mention that boys are bugged vs LVs right now.

The bonus range is quite large, you don't need to park your 250 on the frontline. But again why would you build a 260mp unit meant to fight if it isn't to use it on the frontline.

So to rephrase it, DAK is having early powerspike, which on its own possible because enemy don't have counters to it. For me this is called struggling, because this is CoH2 all over again, where you are forced to play in one particular way in order to have your ground. And its not similar to a wehr situation, where other options are still alright, but Luft was just the strongest of them therefore always picked.

As for counters, idk, UKF can have IS+IS+rifle nades or Dingo+IS+rifle nades. Dingo is destroying 250 super hard and getting nades early isnt hurting UK economy over-all. While PGs under CA is a bit stronger, green to green cover its still a long stalemate. Not to mention that boys are bugged vs LVs right now.

True about dingo, brit players denial about it is only thing holding DAK in early game now.

Panzergren combined arms provides +20% accuracy, movement speed, ability range and -20% received accuracy, it literally turns them from Conscripts into vet 2 Penal Battalions from the get go.

Ah i see...

Obviously i knew they got a combined arms buff but i didn't realise it was that strong, guess that explains why they are so lacklustre on their own. Who actually wants to build a 250 from scratch in the early game though? For me anyway it seems much more efficient to simply wait for the call in and have more units running around that can cap.

I'm right in thinking there's no combined arms buff from the kradschützen right? I can understand why, think it might get a bit oppressive if it had it as well as its vet 1 ability.

Seperately, what do you guys think of the autocannon/mortar upgrade for the 250? I find the mortar is nice but the autocannon doesn't really seem that worth it, requires a significant amount of careful micro in exchange for fairly mediocre damage.

No wonder you're struggling with DAK if you take such horrendous engagements and under-estimate CA. You can simply go Pgren ---> Pgren ---> 250 at the beginning. With flamerpio - 250 + double CA pgrens at min 4 you can do an extremely oppressive push that is only stoppable right now if you play vs a USF player that rushed riflemen nades... which means he went riflemen and they kinda suck in teamgames atm.

You don't have to attack the frontline sectors at all costs from the beginning like a donkey, simply pull out with your Panzerpios or Pgren if you see 4 pathfinders or 2-3 sections. And wait until you have the 4 units mentioned above ready and then push all of them together.

Panzergren combined arms provides +20% accuracy, movement speed, ability range and -20% received accuracy, it literally turns them from Conscripts into vet 2 Penal Battalions from the get go. If you don't utilize this feature then just stop playing DAK because you're playing this faction completely wrong. And again, after 5+min into the game it's not that crazy hard to park a 250 or flakvierling near your Pgren "blob" (2 squads is ideal number, vs hardcore spammers you need 3; DAK is about vehicle snowballing and not inf spam) and Heal Truck + weapon teams

And no, I'm not farming randumbs as an arranged team. Apart from the launch-weekend I am mostly spamming pure random games, sometimes team of 2 4v4's

https://coh3stats.com/players/1447?view=recentMatches

We really do need a page explaining vet and all these passive abilities in details.