Further Evidence that COH3 is Trash

I would really like to hear from BP protectors, how would they indeed react if Maus, or alright, lets be more "resonable" one of these units were add into the game:

Tiger conversation into SPG, with a gun close to B4 in calibre.
Maybe Panther 2? Which is basically a panther with Tiger armor.
Or we can go for, Flakpanzer 3. Basically a Panther with flak gun.
Flakpanzer IV also could be an option.

They all didn't even hit the service, were prototypes, but hey, we have BP which also didn't, so what difference does it make?

After that we can consider adding, weapon prototypes, just like CoD did.

So I would actually suggest to stop trying to counter authenticity argument with gameplay argument and actually use your brain to think about what untied hands of Relic might add unto the game, when they are green lighted to add units which were never used IRL to begin with.

Idk, go and look for Rob's Realism mod for Men of War 2. It basically has almost all units\tanks immaginable while staying true to "if it was used, it can be added". Each faction (soviets, german, UK, USA and even Guards for soviets and SS for germans as sub faction), have like 20+ vehicles.

CoH factions in total have around 10, yet, instead of using real options, Relic goes for fan-fiction

CoH factions in total have around 10, yet, instead of using real options, Relic goes for fan-fiction

That is because Relic is run by EA clowns who are clueless by what made COH1 or COH2 great. They might as well add Tyranids, Orks and Space Marines since they clearly are intent on repeating Dawn of War 3 again.

I would really like to hear from BP protectors, how would they indeed react if Maus, or alright, lets be more "resonable" one of these units were add into the game:

Tiger conversation into SPG, with a gun close to B4 in calibre.
Maybe Panther 2? Which is basically a panther with Tiger armor.
Or we can go for, Flakpanzer 3. Basically a Panther with flak gun.
Flakpanzer IV also could be an option.

They all didn't even hit the service, were prototypes, but hey, we have BP which also didn't, so what difference does it make?

After that we can consider adding, weapon prototypes, just like CoD did.

So I would actually suggest to stop trying to counter authenticity argument with gameplay argument and actually use your brain to think about what untied hands of Relic might add unto the game, when they are green lighted to add units which were never used IRL to begin with.

Idk, go and look for Rob's Realism mod for Men of War 2. It basically has almost all units\tanks immaginable while staying true to "if it was used, it can be added". Each faction (soviets, german, UK, USA and even Guards for soviets and SS for germans as sub faction), have like 20+ vehicles.

CoH factions in total have around 10, yet, instead of using real options, Relic goes for fan-fiction

Personally, the BP fulfills the role of a "KT" essentially. an endstage heavy tank with comparable performance to the tiger 1 (or 2 doesn't matter)

Also to add on to this, if factions like Japan are to get added. then prototype units don't just become unnecessary, but they'd become mandatory to make a cohesive faction. That said that's another debate.

Overall I'm of the belief of the bending historical accuracy for the sake of balance. Sometimes that means giving a faction that normally would not have access to certain tools, access to those tools.

As for those examples... personally i wouldn't give too much of a shit, but none of them really fill a particular niche that cannot be filled with the standard stuff. That said, we already have had sturmtigers,bergetigers,chaffes,hellcats the size of tiger and a bunch of other shit that got bent to fit the historical narratives

Ultimately. coh2 is an arcade game that priorities the flash over accuracy aspects. Though despite that it tries to retain authenticity, in that it's meant to *feel* like a real battlefield and ww2. And you can still do that with things that aren't meant to be there. (Even disregarding the BP, the chaffe wasn't ever in Italy either IIRC so if the BP gets cut why should the chaffe be allowed?)

Meanwhile, modders be all like

Not only are you completely stubborn, but have 0 serious knowledge of ww2.

In fact tanks died alot from artillery barrages and that's the main reason allies pushed through armored SS battallions during the Normandy Landings in 1944:

You really seem to struggle with reading comprehension. It's okay, trolls often struggle with language

I didn't say artillery couldn't kill tanks. I said it wasn't realistic for multiple howitzers to immediately zero in on a single tank with perfect accuracy

The non-tracking barrage abilities are much more realistic. Same goes for airplane strafes vs loiters

Also, P51 mustangs, IL2 and Stukas could rape the fuck out of every medium armor in existence. Especially the P51s.

They had the firepower. But actually landing a hit on a tank from a plane was extremely difficult. Certainly not as easy as coh2 makes it look

The brits operational research sections realized this during the war. Especially when it came to AT rockets like the typhoons. Their accuracy was extremely unreliable

I get the impression that you are purposefully retarding yourself just to win this one.

Look in the mirror. That's a perfect description of almost everything you write on this site lol

Of course the game simplifies many mechanics of ww2. That's my entire fucking point. If that doesn't bother someone's desire for authenticity but the black prince does, then that's inconsistent

I would really like to hear from BP protectors, how would they indeed react if Maus, or alright, lets be more "resonable" one of these units were add into the game:

Who cares? If it's balanced I don't give a shit

As long as BP or whatever german wet dream you want doesn't perform like the KT did when it was first added (225 rear armor lol) then I don't care what they add. Just balance it.

The KT was very real and certainly not just a prototype, but did that stop it from breaking the game when it was added? Nope. Design matters more than authenticity

I would prefer the game be about LVs and mediums. But if super heavies are gonna be a thing again, just make sure they are balanced

Both replies are similar in the idea.

Again, I'm not the guy who runs for "realism", CoH is arcade game when we discuss the realism. I have nothing against BP as a unit, because its technically speaking is nothing special.

I will repeat myself, we are dealing with Relic in a first place. Meaning that by adding BP into the game, later they can add anything they want. Sure, not a big dead, maybe.

Balance could be easily be messed up, even with "realistic" units, this is also true. But again, as OrangePest said there is really nothing what couldn't be filled with realistic units anyway.

And that's the whole point. Ok, lets say we want UKF to finally have some sort of fat tank with a big gun, you could easily use Challenger for this role. As stated game is not realistic, so this unit could be used as a sort of a heavy tank, with buffed HP\armor and why not.

Its not saying that BP is the problem, because literally it can be balanced to have performance of a sherman and sherman might be balanced to be as strong as KT and with-in arcade CoH game-play it still would make sense.

I'am complaining about the fact that this is literally the first time Relic decided to add completely fictional unit into the game.

Not the one which was used\build in super low numbers, not the ones which were used on different fronts, not the ones which don't make sense year vise. This alone just allow them to add other fictional stuff into the game, which in a long run might just add problems.

Over-all its all sounds like a conspiracy, but my main point is - they are intentionally adding this unit into the game, to later on allow themself add more of them later on to be soled as DLC. We are joking about Mouse, but imagine how many people would buy it if it comes as DLC. Time will show offcourse, but I strongly believe, that nothing good will come from this.

I mean, do you really believe, they are adding it only because its cool. They are literally changing ship models in a campaign because "its the model of a wrong year shit" or responding to people saying "gurkhas voice is wrong" promising to change it. But when it comes to whole BP situation they are using excuse of a game "trying to look realistic, but not to be".

On top of that, but this is a stretch, Axis dont even have KT\Ele\JT in the game. Judging by the file digs, they only have Tiger\Panther and both of them are locked behind commanders anyway, so there is no reason even from a balance perspective (which we dont know anything about yet) for such heavy tank to be in the game. It would have made more sense if it was in CoH2 at this point.

And if, Allies for some reason which we don't know yet, need KT equivalent tank in CoH3, why not just give them super pershing.

Both replies are similar in the idea.

Again, I'm not the guy who runs for "realism", CoH is arcade game when we discuss the realism. I have nothing against BP as a unit, because its technically speaking is nothing special.

I will repeat myself, we are dealing with Relic in a first place. Meaning that by adding BP into the game, later they can add anything they want. Sure, not a big dead, maybe.

Balance could be easily be messed up, even with "realistic" units, this is also true. But again, as OrangePest said there is really nothing what couldn't be filled with realistic units anyway.

And that's the whole point. Ok, lets say we want UKF to finally have some sort of fat tank with a big gun, you could easily use Challenger for this role. As stated game is not realistic, so this unit could be used as a sort of a heavy tank, with buffed HP\armor and why not.

Its not saying that BP is the problem, because literally it can be balanced to have performance of a sherman and sherman might be balanced to be as strong as KT and with-in arcade CoH game-play it still would make sense.

I'am complaining about the fact that this is literally the first time Relic decided to add completely fictional unit into the game.

Not the one which was used\build in super low numbers, not the ones which were used on different fronts, not the ones which don't make sense year vise. This alone just allow them to add other fictional stuff into the game, which in a long run might just add problems.

Over-all its all sounds like a conspiracy, but my main point is - they are intentionally adding this unit into the game, to later on allow themself add more of them later on to be soled as DLC. We are joking about Mouse, but imagine how many people would buy it if it comes as DLC. Time will show offcourse, but I strongly believe, that nothing good will come from this.

I mean, do you really believe, they are adding it only because its cool. They are literally changing ship models in a campaign because "its the model of a wrong year shit" or responding to people saying "gurkhas voice is wrong" promising to change it. But when it comes to whole BP situation they are using excuse of a game "trying to look realistic, but not to be".

On top of that, but this is a stretch, Axis dont even have KT\Ele\JT in the game. Judging by the file digs, they only have Tiger\Panther and both of them are locked behind commanders anyway, so there is no reason even from a balance perspective (which we dont know anything about yet) for such heavy tank to be in the game. It would have made more sense if it was in CoH2 at this point.

And if, Allies for some reason which we don't know yet, need KT equivalent tank in CoH3, why not just give them super pershing.

Sure, those are real concerns, but ultimately i believe there will be some form control or line they won't go past. (Though if the maus gets added i wouldn't really care tbh). Personally, i believe it just helps set the stage for japan to be played tho or whatever other faction they might want.

Your concern is far from unreasonable. Especially with Relics tank record with DLC. I guess I'm just not as concerned about that aspect as I am about balance

The DLC in coh2 is a shining example. All 3 western factions had some hilariously OP elements when they were added. The su85 basically got a new main gun altogether just to deal with the KT

Since none of the balance issues were caused by "fictional" units, I don't have much issue with that direction. But who knows, Relic may find a way to sour my taste for that as well

Both replies are similar in the idea.

Again, I'm not the guy who runs for "realism", CoH is arcade game when we discuss the realism. I have nothing against BP as a unit, because its technically speaking is nothing special.

I will repeat myself, we are dealing with Relic in a first place. Meaning that by adding BP into the game, later they can add anything they want. Sure, not a big dead, maybe.

Balance could be easily be messed up, even with "realistic" units, this is also true. But again, as OrangePest said there is really nothing what couldn't be filled with realistic units anyway.

And that's the whole point. Ok, lets say we want UKF to finally have some sort of fat tank with a big gun, you could easily use Challenger for this role. As stated game is not realistic, so this unit could be used as a sort of a heavy tank, with buffed HP\armor and why not.

Its not saying that BP is the problem, because literally it can be balanced to have performance of a sherman and sherman might be balanced to be as strong as KT and with-in arcade CoH game-play it still would make sense.

I'am complaining about the fact that this is literally the first time Relic decided to add completely fictional unit into the game.

Not the one which was used\build in super low numbers, not the ones which were used on different fronts, not the ones which don't make sense year vise. This alone just allow them to add other fictional stuff into the game, which in a long run might just add problems.

Over-all its all sounds like a conspiracy, but my main point is - they are intentionally adding this unit into the game, to later on allow themself add more of them later on to be soled as DLC. We are joking about Mouse, but imagine how many people would buy it if it comes as DLC. Time will show offcourse, but I strongly believe, that nothing good will come from this.

I mean, do you really believe, they are adding it only because its cool. They are literally changing ship models in a campaign because "its the model of a wrong year shit" or responding to people saying "gurkhas voice is wrong" promising to change it. But when it comes to whole BP situation they are using excuse of a game "trying to look realistic, but not to be".

On top of that, but this is a stretch, Axis dont even have KT\Ele\JT in the game. Judging by the file digs, they only have Tiger\Panther and both of them are locked behind commanders anyway, so there is no reason even from a balance perspective (which we dont know anything about yet) for such heavy tank to be in the game. It would have made more sense if it was in CoH2 at this point.

And if, Allies for some reason which we don't know yet, need KT equivalent tank in CoH3, why not just give them super pershing.

They also have Nashorn and Hummel

i wonder if the guys craving for authenticity also want Italian and Japanese faction

i wonder if the guys craving for authenticity also want Italian and Japanese faction

Italian - yes, they have enough units for the faction. Japan - no. Their best tanks were waiting for the invasion of the Home Islands, the best anti-tank used by Japan during the war was the Type 1 Ho-Ni I which is equivalent to the Soviet SU-76. Even if Relic wanted to do the Eastern Front again and put the T-44 or IS-3 into the game which were great tanks and which I really like, I would be just as completely against it as against the Black Prince, it breaks immersion and authenticity.

i wonder if the guys craving for authenticity also want Italian and Japanese faction

I would have liked an early War COH with factions like the French, Italian and British.

i wonder if the guys craving for authenticity also want Italian and Japanese faction

I'm one of the guys asking for authenticity and ITALIANs at the same time.
And I cant see any conflict here

I'm one of the guys asking for authenticity and ITALIANs at the same time.
And I cant see any conflict here

Absolutely. Italy has enough units for an independent faction:
- L6/40 or Autoblinda 41 - light scout
- M14/41 or M15/42 with additional tracks armor - main tank
- P26/40 - tank battle group, can switch shells from normal to HEAT (like Easy Eight)
- Semovente da 75/18 - support self-propelled gun
- Semovente da 75/34 - the main medium AT self-propelled gun
- Semovente da 90/53 - the main heavy AT self-propelled gun, like Jackson
- Semovente da 105/25 - battle group heavy support / AT self-propelled gun
- Captured Renault R-35, Somua S35 (Carro armato S.O.M.U.A) can also be available in battle group.

Unfortunately, Japan was not even close to using tanks in battle

Over-all its all sounds like a conspiracy, but my main point is - they are intentionally adding this unit into the game, to later on allow themself add more of them later on to be soled as DLC. We are joking about Mouse, but imagine how many people would buy it if it comes as DLC. Time will show offcourse, but I strongly believe, that nothing good will come from this.

Nothing surprises me anymore. Below is some good info on why Relic/Sega management can't be trusted partly because of ESG investments/scores.

Just follow the money and you'll know the truth 9 out of 10 times.
To a denier, nothing will ever satisfy them other than experiencing 'truth' for themselves.
People can ignore reality but most people cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

The concentration of wealth (WEF billionaires club and tax avoidance through foundations), the megacorporations that control other's people's money (stakeholder capitalism such as Blackrock/Vanguard) and those who make fiat money (fractional reserve banking) absolutely rule entire countries.

With woke ESG scores/investments, western capitalism has gone completely off the rails.
Bad news sucks, I get it.
Just be informed that with all these pro-ESG companies (including Relic/SEGA), fans can be 100% certain that executive leadership + Sega Sammy board of directors are either naive or corrupt.
Take your pick.

This fan from CoH3 steam forum understands the AAA gaming con game;
Originally posted by Starlet:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1677280/discussions/0/5710018482962795095/#c5710018482965080595
To understand why Relic is doing this you need to look at who owns the company. The old adage "follow the money" is highly relevant here.
Relic is owned by Sega, which in turn is owned by Vanguard - one of the two most powerful and rich megacorporations on this planet.
Both Vanguard and Blackrock (the second richest megacorp, owned partially by Vanguard) are institutional investors and systematically push all corporations they own to embrace certain modern social constructs.
Example: Blackrock's "DEI"-policy: https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/about-us/diversity-equity-and-inclusion

The more "diversity" a company has in its structure and in relation to the product they're selling the more investment money will be available for that company as its "ESG" rating will increase. ESG is basically an "investment reliability score" that the afromentioned megacorps are standardizing, and as your ESG-score increases more investors flock to you and you get access to more attractive loans.
And any board of directors of a company that are against these "social contructs" will also find themselves replaced by the holder(s) as soon as possible.

As it stands, Sega leadership and board of directors take pride in ESG scores/investments and vow to expand on this as a long-term vision ending March 2030 as the target year;
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/sustainability/governance/authentication/
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/sustainability/commitment/

Woke capitalism statistics:


ESG train wreck and inflated stocks/huge bubble coming to a place near you;


Adam Smith the founder of competitive capitalism in 1776 with The Wealth of Nations (the same year as the US declaration of independence) would be turning in his grave.

EXPLAINED: ESG scores are why EVERY corporation is going WOKE

ESG scores similar to China's social credit system, designed to transform society, think tank director says
source;
Home | Heartland Institute

According to Austrian economics such as Ron Paul, "Woke" Capitalism Is An Economic Disaster In The Making:
https://rumble.com/v177itn-woke-capitalism-is-an-economic-disaster-in-the-making.html

Quote Elon Musk;

ESG is a scam. It has been weaponized by phony social justice warriors.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526958110023245829
I am increasingly convinced that corporate ESG is the Devil Incarnate
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1510485792296210434

Is ESG investing just a scam?
The latest investing trend:
https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/is-esg-investing-just-a-scam-a092a4e28c77

You can already tell ESG investing is a joke when even oil companies and tobacco companies are claimed to be ESG companies. Altria is one of the examples, it is so ironic and disgusting that one of the biggest tobacco companies that also sell wine, weed, and Juul claims themselves to be an ESG company when all they sell is nothing but harm to the society and environment, how does it even meet the environmental standards.

Arch Warhammer briefly talked about ESG investments in Relic/Sega marketing (social credit score for woke corporations) and the future of Relic here;

Quote from Arch Warhammer;

25:15 “it also stinks of ESG score it really does it really stinks of outside investment”

Joe Rogon Interview Adam Curry. ESG's Are the Reason for Woke Corporate Interests.


A BlackRock dissident speaks truth (chief investment officer for sustainable investing at BlackRock):
https://www.ft.com/content/ec02fd5d-e8bd-45bd-b015-a5799ae820cf

*snip*
Almost everything that Tariq Fancy says about environmental, social and corporate governance, or ESG, investing has been said before, in one form or another. The significance of what he writes — most recently in a long essay on Medium — is how he says it and who he is. He was the chief investment officer for sustainable investing at BlackRock, which is the most important institutional face of the claim that ESG investing has an important role to play in helping the environment, promoting the social good, holding the corporate world accountable, and so on.

Fancy thinks the ESG project is intellectually bankrupt and is damaging to the most important causes it purports to support.

Nothing surprises me anymore. Below is some good info on why Relic/Sega management can't be trusted partly because of ESG investments/scores.

Just follow the money and you'll know the truth 9 out of 10 times.
To a denier, nothing will ever satisfy them other than experiencing 'truth' for themselves.
People can ignore reality but most people cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

The concentration of wealth (WEF billionaires club and tax avoidance through foundations), the megacorporations that control other's people's money (stakeholder capitalism such as Blackrock/Vanguard) and those who make fiat money (fractional reserve banking) absolutely rule entire countries.

With woke ESG scores/investments, western capitalism has gone completely off the rails.
Bad news sucks, I get it.
Just be informed that with all these pro-ESG companies (including Relic/SEGA), fans can be 100% certain that executive leadership + Sega Sammy board of directors are either naive or corrupt.
Take your pick.

This fan from CoH3 steam forum understands the AAA gaming con game;
Originally posted by Starlet:

As it stands, Sega leadership and board of directors take pride in ESG scores/investments and vow to expand on this as a long-term vision ending March 2030 as the target year;
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/sustainability/governance/authentication/
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/sustainability/commitment/

Woke capitalism statistics:


ESG train wreck and inflated stocks/huge bubble coming to a place near you;


Adam Smith the founder of competitive capitalism in 1776 with The Wealth of Nations (the same year as the US declaration of independence) would be turning in his grave.

EXPLAINED: ESG scores are why EVERY corporation is going WOKE

According to Austrian economics such as Ron Paul, "Woke" Capitalism Is An Economic Disaster In The Making:
https://rumble.com/v177itn-woke-capitalism-is-an-economic-disaster-in-the-making.html

Quote Elon Musk;

Is ESG investing just a scam?
The latest investing trend:
https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/is-esg-investing-just-a-scam-a092a4e28c77

Arch Warhammer briefly talked about ESG investments in Relic/Sega marketing (social credit score for woke corporations) and the future of Relic here;

Quote from Arch Warhammer;

Joe Rogon Interview Adam Curry. ESG's Are the Reason for Woke Corporate Interests.


A BlackRock dissident speaks truth (chief investment officer for sustainable investing at BlackRock):
https://www.ft.com/content/ec02fd5d-e8bd-45bd-b015-a5799ae820cf

A pretty wild and totally relevant post as usual.

Yes we all know Relic is ran by lizardmen and witches, but I hope the game's good nevertheless

Will there be an option to black list shithead players in COH3?

Both replies are similar in the idea.

Again, I'm not the guy who runs for "realism", CoH is arcade game when we discuss the realism. I have nothing against BP as a unit, because its technically speaking is nothing special.

I will repeat myself, we are dealing with Relic in a first place. Meaning that by adding BP into the game, later they can add anything they want. Sure, not a big dead, maybe.

Balance could be easily be messed up, even with "realistic" units, this is also true. But again, as OrangePest said there is really nothing what couldn't be filled with realistic units anyway.

And that's the whole point. Ok, lets say we want UKF to finally have some sort of fat tank with a big gun, you could easily use Challenger for this role. As stated game is not realistic, so this unit could be used as a sort of a heavy tank, with buffed HP\armor and why not.

Its not saying that BP is the problem, because literally it can be balanced to have performance of a sherman and sherman might be balanced to be as strong as KT and with-in arcade CoH game-play it still would make sense.

I'am complaining about the fact that this is literally the first time Relic decided to add completely fictional unit into the game.

Not the one which was used\build in super low numbers, not the ones which were used on different fronts, not the ones which don't make sense year vise. This alone just allow them to add other fictional stuff into the game, which in a long run might just add problems.

Over-all its all sounds like a conspiracy, but my main point is - they are intentionally adding this unit into the game, to later on allow themself add more of them later on to be soled as DLC. We are joking about Mouse, but imagine how many people would buy it if it comes as DLC. Time will show offcourse, but I strongly believe, that nothing good will come from this.

I mean, do you really believe, they are adding it only because its cool. They are literally changing ship models in a campaign because "its the model of a wrong year shit" or responding to people saying "gurkhas voice is wrong" promising to change it. But when it comes to whole BP situation they are using excuse of a game "trying to look realistic, but not to be".

On top of that, but this is a stretch, Axis dont even have KT\Ele\JT in the game. Judging by the file digs, they only have Tiger\Panther and both of them are locked behind commanders anyway, so there is no reason even from a balance perspective (which we dont know anything about yet) for such heavy tank to be in the game. It would have made more sense if it was in CoH2 at this point.

And if, Allies for some reason which we don't know yet, need KT equivalent tank in CoH3, why not just give them super pershing.

truer words have never been spoken