Penals have the worst mainline infantry target size

Yeah scratch my idea.

Penals initialy where designed to be the punch with tools to break defenses cons could not reliably give. Then they nerfed penals to the ground at 270 mp loosing sprint later as well. Cons recieved durability buffs and their dps became consistant and closer to penals.

Just imagining penals with sprint, 2 flamethrowers and a satchel charge. Yeah that's a fucking badass unit right there.

Just imagining penals with sprint, 2 flamethrowers and a satchel charge. Yeah that's a fucking badass unit right there.

welcome to 2013

bitcoing? what's that bro?

Just imagining penals with sprint, 2 flamethrowers and a satchel charge. Yeah that's a fucking badass unit right there.

I think they removed it back in 2017, they got one of the heaviest nerfs as they made several changes.

Increased POP - makes sense
Received ACC dropped to .85 - for the reinforcement cost, bad idea
cheaper satchel VET3 - Useless
Lost Oorah - seems to be overnerf if losing Target size, Oorah would help with picking engagement
Lost flamethrower - makes sense, made them to strong
Gained AT upgrade

Overall it was a massive nerf that dropped them almost to irrelevancy. The worst part is the most recent infantry patch drops some ACC vet for REC ACC when they should have had it the entire time. I think most players would give up the cheaper Satchel and get the lost ACC back. This would help with scaling as Flames plus Oorah was the issue not SVT damage.

I think they removed it back in 2017, they got one of the heaviest nerfs as they made several changes.

Increased POP - makes sense
Received ACC dropped to .85 - for the reinforcement cost, bad idea
cheaper satchel VET3 - Useless
Lost Oorah - seems to be overnerf if losing Target size, Oorah would help with picking engagement
Lost flamethrower - makes sense, made them to strong
Gained AT upgrade

Overall it was a massive nerf that dropped them almost to irrelevancy. The worst part is the most recent infantry patch drops some ACC vet for REC ACC when they should have had it the entire time. I think most players would give up the cheaper Satchel and get the lost ACC back. This would help with scaling as Flames plus Oorah was the issue not SVT damage.

That is not really accurate. Penal got a massive buff when they had the far DPS almost doubled and with changes to flamers.

For 6 months they where completely broken since they had the broken ourah/flamer combination and people did not even bothered to tech since they could simply call in no tech tanks.
The Soviets enjoyed some of the highest win-rates during those days.

As for target size as far as I can see there was no nerf on contrary there was a buff at vet 2 bonus on the cost of an accuracy nerf.

That is not really accurate. Penal got a massive buff when they had the far DPS almost doubled and with changes to flamers.

For 6 months they where completely broken since they had the broken ourah/flamer combination and people did not even bothered to tech since they could simply call in no tech tanks.
The Soviets enjoyed some of the highest win-rates during those days.

As for target size as far as I can see there was no nerf on contrary there was a buff at vet 2 bonus on the cost of an accuracy nerf.

Exactly, the biggest issue was that they decent Far damage plus flamers and oorah. They should have removed oorah and flamer and seen how it went. The tech changes were made to all factions so Penals should have been partially reverted as the nerf was really heavy handed.

Their target size was .77, in the 2017 update it got nerfed to .85 and got brought back to .77 at the cost of losing VET3 acc in the March 2021 update. So it was still an overall nerf that was never needed.

Popcap cost increased from 7 to 8
Penal Veterancy 3 received accuracy from 0.77 to 0.85
Veterancy 3 reduces cost of satchel charges from 45 munitions to 35 munitions.
No longer gains access to the Oorah ability.
No longer have access to the flamethrower upgrade
Now gain access to a (2x) PTRS upgrade

Imo penals should not have lost sprint. Just removed the flamer and went from there. Sprint is the stock staple for soviets. Imo a shame they lost it.

Penals dont have a nade that actualy works vs anything but buildings so they wont get easy wipes with sprint and good nades.

The insane stopping power of the mg42 and 34 can handely counteract sprint if properly placed. And sprint was vet locked for them.

Imo penals should not have lost sprint. Just removed the flamer and went from there. Sprint is the stock staple for soviets. Imo a shame they lost it.

Penals dont have a nade that actualy works vs anything but buildings so they wont get easy wipes with sprint and good nades.

The insane stopping power of the mg42 and 34 can handely counteract sprint if properly placed. And sprint was vet locked for them.

Yea, its a shame since Penals with PPSH+Sprint could have been an interesting option as they get a lot unlocked at Vet2. I think a good compromise would have been locking out sprint if AT upgrade was unlocked as they can engine crit everything short of a Heavy tank.

Yea, its a shame since Penals with PPSH+Sprint could have been an interesting option as they get a lot unlocked at Vet2. I think a good compromise would have been locking out sprint if AT upgrade was unlocked as they can engine crit everything short of a Heavy tank.

yeah i agree.

Yea, its a shame since Penals with PPSH+Sprint could have been an interesting option as they get a lot unlocked at Vet2. I think a good compromise would have been locking out sprint if AT upgrade was unlocked as they can engine crit everything short of a Heavy tank.

Damn.. I didn't even think of that. Yeah that would've been pretty cool, wouldn't it've?

Damn.. I didn't even think of that. Yeah that would've been pretty cool, wouldn't it've?

Advanced Warfare, Soviet Reserve, Conscript Support could all benefit from Soviets receiving full PPSH upgrade as they would serve as the elites for the doctrines while having fairly exploitable weakness. PPSH upgrade could have been used to unlock Oorah or not depending on balance testing.

The Player would have choice between cons which would be significantly weaker but with AT nade and easier on MP or slower stronger Penal start with power spike to try and get early wipes to keep pressure up as the PPSH will fall off as Axis get more Vet. Mixing would always work well as cons could Merge into PPSH Penals to keep pressure up and obviously Soviet Reserve would allow T2 skip. Both Soviet Reserve and Conscript Support have rapid conscription so planned hard pushes could net a conscript squad to replace lost PPSH Cons/Penals into 7 man Cons.

At CP2 PPSH Penals also compare extremely favorably to the other Soviet elite SMG squads as 1 Penal can be expected to be at Vet2 or extremely close at that point. They will deal more damage and have better survivability compared to Shocks, Airborne and AssGuards. Obviously once they start to vet they will outclass Penals in specific areas but Penals will deal the highest damage consistently due to Vet3.

Shocks have durability and smoke, Airborne have cloak/first strike/smoke, AssG have assault nade/mixed model DPS.

The other advantage Penals would have is more squads, as most know when you see an elite squad be it Obers/Shocks/Rangers they will get focused down. With 3-4 squads of Penals this will be hard to do so it would allow for some interesting matchups. I have had some success using Airborne tactics but the weapon drop telegraphs commander choice and severely limits how fast I can deploy my strat.