I think Ost pioneers should lose their sight bonus

Anyone still gunna talk pios? I think their sight is a bit much. Specially since they can open with mg42

Anyone still gunna talk pios? I think their sight is a bit much. Specially since they can open with mg42

Not that its gonna happen but the vision bonus range should be put behind a bp or upgrade for pios.

Anyone still gunna talk pios? I think their sight is a bit much. Specially since they can open with mg42

Yep, this is my point. I made this thread because too many times I was trying to flank the MG, the sight bonus gave away my position allowing the enemy player to react in time. It's a pretty huge advantage. Especially given how much of an advantage the MG42 is already giving the Ost player.

Yep, this is my point. I made this thread because too many times I was trying to flank the MG, the sight bonus gave away my position allowing the enemy player to react in time. It's a pretty huge advantage. Especially given how much of an advantage the MG42 is already giving the Ost player.

460 mp for just static defense is not an advantage but a disadvantage, especially early game

460 mp for just static defense is not an advantage but a disadvantage, especially early game

Its maybe a disadvantage in 1v1 but in every other mode i dont think so. Not to mention u get 1 pio for free so idk why ur saying 460mp

Its maybe a disadvantage in 1v1 but in every other mode i dont think so. Not to mention u get 1 pio for free so idk why ur saying 460mp

There is no such thing as a free unit. every unit that you have that is not a support weapon should always be active. A pio should be capping harassing in the early game and in the mid game it gets additional tasks with buildings bunkers tellers repairing and clearing out infantry from buildings.

Pio squads at this point are overburdened with tasks that prevents them from making good scouts.

Yep, this is my point. I made this thread because too many times I was trying to flank the MG, the sight bonus gave away my position allowing the enemy player to react in time. It's a pretty huge advantage. Especially given how much of an advantage the MG42 is already giving the Ost player.

No decent OST player would leave its MG42 babysitted by Pio it's ridiculous to waste 2 caps in order to increase firepower in early game. Leave pios near MG42 by the flank zone yes but that scenario you put forward exist only in your fever dreams.

every unit that you have that is not a support weapon should always be active. A pio should be capping harassing in the early game and in the mid game it gets additional tasks with buildings bunkers tellers repairing and clearing out infantry from buildings.

Pio squads at this point are overburdened with tasks that prevents them from making good scouts.

Like I said this is a non-issue in every mode except 1v1. In team games u have way less territory to cap and harass (cuz ur tm8s share the burden) so u have much more flexibility with pios

Like I said this is a non-issue in every mode except 1v1. In team games u have way less territory to cap and harass (cuz ur tm8s share the burden) so u have much more flexibility with pios

Teamgames cannot be balanced because of the very poor game design of THQ. if something needs to be balanced, you should do so from the perspective of 1vs1

Since HMG spam isn't an issue anymore maybe Pio vision can get a nerf?

Also I thought there were no more patches left for Coh2.

Teamgames cannot be balanced because of the very poor game design of THQ. if something needs to be balanced, you should do so from the perspective of 1vs1

Its maybe a disadvantage in 1v1 but in every other mode i dont think so. Not to mention u get 1 pio for free so idk why ur saying 460mp

No one starts with units for free. That's a common misconception by players with a weak understanding of the game.

Factions that start with more expensive units get less starting manpower. It's roughly similar with some quirks here and there, but it's mostly balanced to give everyone kinda-equal starting resources.

No one starts with units for free. That's a common misconception by players with a weak understanding of the game.

Factions that start with more expensive units get less starting manpower. It's roughly similar with some quirks here and there, but it's mostly balanced to give everyone kinda-equal starting resources.

I know they have different starting res but u dont have to build it my main point. U get one already, build time matters too. If u didnt get one "for free" then u would have to wait til pio is done just to build ur 1st mg42, or vice versa

"Roughly-similar with some quirks" "Kinda-equal"???

Care to elaborate oh grand master? My peasant brain needs help

It's already difficult enough to counter MG spam in the early game, the sight bonus makes it even more difficult to pull off successful flanks or can give spotting for their mortars while safe inside their own MG's firing arc when trying to counter with indirect fire. They should have the same sight as the other normal engineer units.

I understand how you feel however trust me when I say that you are directing your frustration towards the wrong thing. The issue is not really the MG-42 or the Pioneer but the extremely shit map design. Half the maps are lane maps and its basically Dota 2 (or League of Legends) watching the battle swing back and forth over a particular lane. COH 2 map design is a significant step backwards compared to the COH 1 maps (though to be fair most of the Relic designed maps were snow maps which were fairly decent back when the game was about snow).


My biggest issue with Pioneers is not that they have extra sight but that the game doesn't inform you in any way that they have it. All information needs to be readily available to the player. It should say in the game that Pioneers, Pathfinders etc have extra sight range. The hypocrisy from the balance team also doesn't help either. They removed damage reduction from Rangers and stated that the reason for the removal was that the information wasn't apparent to players, yet turn around and give Pioneers extra sight.

Again the sight isn't the issue but the lack of consistency and transparency is. Also even if the Pioneer sight was removed it doesn't make much difference anyway since Scout Car/Half Track have some of the highest vision in the game (especially with spotting scopes) which most players happen to these units anyway.

I understand how you feel however trust me when I say that you are directing your frustration towards the wrong thing. The issue is not really the MG-42 or the Pioneer but the extremely shit map design. Half the maps are lane maps and its basically Dota 2 (or League of Legends) watching the battle swing back and forth over a particular lane. COH 2 map design is a significant step backwards compared to the COH 1 maps (though to be fair most of the Relic designed maps were snow maps which were fairly decent back when the game was about snow).


My biggest issue with Pioneers is not that they have extra sight but that the game doesn't inform you in any way that they have it. All information needs to be readily available to the player. It should say in the game that Pioneers, Pathfinders etc have extra sight range. The hypocrisy from the balance team also doesn't help either. They removed damage reduction from Rangers and stated that the reason for the removal was that the information wasn't apparent to players, yet turn around and give Pioneers extra sight.

Again the sight isn't the issue but the lack of consistency and transparency is. Also even if the Pioneer sight was removed it doesn't make much difference anyway since Scout Car/Half Track have some of the highest vision in the game (especially with spotting scopes) which most players happen to these units anyway.

Very good reply.

Few people mention that a lot of problems come from the extremely blant map design. Relic's maps are very good, because they had a design process to them. The community ones? Ehh at best. Too laney.

The hypocrisy from the balance team also doesn't help either. They removed damage reduction from Rangers and stated that the reason for the removal was that the information wasn't apparent to players, yet turn around and give Pioneers extra sight.

I was dead sure you're gonna cite Grenadier's vet3, I am quite surprised.
You do realize that the pioneer sight buff dates back to 2015 and there was no balance team back then?

Anyway, the close camera does not make sight differences hugely apparent, but on the other hand there are few stats that could be communicated more obviously than sight range without using a number or table. If the players are able to pick up any stat without playing a ton of matches, sight range is definitely among them.

I was dead sure you're gonna cite Grenadier's vet3, I am quite surprised.

That has been mentioned before previously.

few stats that could be communicated more obviously than sight range without using a number or table. If the players are able to pick up any stat without playing a ton of matches, sight range is definitely among them.

Takes 5 seconds to type that out, the game has the ability to do it, they just can't be bothered typing up any information.

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I fully agree that it should be in there, my point is that sight range is the least of CoH2's problems because unlike almost all other stats, you actually can see it directly.

I assume Relic didn't for one out of lazyness, second maybe because the game reads it in from a text file that would need manual updating and create a lot of outdated and inaccurate text strings.
I do hope that CoH3 comes with an encyclopedia of some sort or a unit stats screen that you can bring up during the game.