Why is the Maxim so bad?

In sort you agree that MG-42 is not spammed like Maxim used to be spammed and that Katokov claim is false as I pointed out.

Correct?

I think it's false, but clearly for different reasons than you do. I also think your focusing way too much on some words and ignoring many others

We only agree if you think the maxim isn't worth 260mp, and should get a cost reduction

So no-one care that in teamgames, on good half of the maps maxim even with its smaller ark is able to lock large chunks of the maps.

Aswell as when backed up by early USF ambu it become practically immortal unless flanked by blob in early game. Which is meta on maps like Red\White ball.

And no-one cares, that even with "how uttery trash" maxim is, OKW still has no counter for it untill IGs\Zu Fuss hit the field, unless soviet player is retarded enouth to let himself be flanked by SP.

But sure, dropping it to 240 mp is a good idea Too bad that in 1v1\2v2 it wont be used anyway, because cons\penal oppening into 120mm\Dshk is still more effective.

So no-one care that in teamgames, on good half of the maps maxim even with its smaller ark is able to lock large chunks of the maps.

Aswell as when backed up by early USF ambu it become practically immortal unless flanked by blob in early game. Which is meta on maps like Red\White ball.

And no-one cares, that even with "how uttery trash" maxim is, OKW still has no counter for it untill IGs\Zu Fuss hit the field, unless soviet player is retarded enouth to let himself be flanked by SP.

But sure, dropping it to 240 mp is a good idea Too bad that in 1v1\2v2 it wont be used anyway, because cons\penal oppening into 120mm\Dshk is still more effective.

Well said.

On a general note, imagine being that bluepilled that you have to make post upon post upon post analyzing how shitty maxim is and in the end just asking for a 20mp price change.

So no-one care that in teamgames, on good half of the maps maxim even with its smaller ark is able to lock large chunks of the maps.

Aswell as when backed up by early USF ambu it become practically immortal unless flanked by blob in early game. Which is meta on maps like Red\White ball.

How is this a maxim specific issue??? This applies to literally every hmg, and if anything the maxim is the least effective at it

And no-one cares, that even with "how uttery trash" maxim is, OKW still has no counter for it untill IGs\Zu Fuss hit the field, unless soviet player is retarded enouth to let himself be flanked by SP.

It's the maxims fault that relic couldn't just give OKW a mortar? And that they waited years to fix their access to the ISG which is still an underwhelming unit in general?

But sure, dropping it to 240 mp is a good idea Too bad that in 1v1\2v2 it wont be used anyway, because cons\penal oppening into 120mm\Dshk is still more effective.

Just like raising it's price to 260 while giving it multiple nerfs was a good idea... The performance nerfs were plenty

Of course the price change would have a miniscule effect. That's the entire point. Why did they do it in the first place when they were already nerfing the shit out of it

How is this a maxim specific issue??? This applies to literally every hmg, and if anything the maxim is the least effective at it

Who cares if the maxim is the least effective amoung already way too effective units, within the cancerous strats and map pools?

It's the maxims fault that relic couldn't just give OKW a mortar? And that they waited years to fix their access to the ISG which is still an underwhelming unit in general?

Its Relic fault and what you saying is true, but the point of the thread is the rant about maxim, without attempts to look at the bigger picture. Maxim buffs could have been possible imo within the big patch which adresses multiple core problems of factions in some aspects.

Just like raising it's price to 260 while giving it multiple nerfs was a good idea... The performance nerfs were plenty

Well it was a bandaid fix, sure. Maybe even stupid one. But its better to have underwhelming unit, then having broken unit, if proper factions ajustements cant be made.

Opposite to the other factions, Sovs dont need a HMG to lock down a sector of a map. They have plenty of tools to do that, like 7men squads, T70s, cheap T34s, barrage on AT gun, etc.
Its called async balance.

Opposite to the other factions, Sovs dont need a HMG to lock down a sector of a map. They have plenty of tools to do that, like 7men squads, T70s, cheap T34s, barrage on AT gun, etc.
Its called async balance.

So no-one care that in teamgames, on good half of the maps maxim even with its smaller ark is able to lock large chunks of the maps.

Aswell as when backed up by early USF ambu it become practically immortal unless flanked by blob in early game. Which is meta on maps like Red\White ball.

As opposed to the superior firing arc machine guns being able to your job better than you do after your 30 seconds pass? and half of them do your job better even during your ability

not only is the reinforcement a tactic all MG users can use equally, but infantry blobs instead of the MG are way more effective than a lone MG taking up a whole ambu

Vipper still hasent commented if he agrees the maxim isent worth 260mp. Somehow 8 years ago is more relavent. I am quite curious for the answer.

Opposite to the other factions, Sovs dont need a HMG to lock down a sector of a map. They have plenty of tools to do that, like 7men squads, T70s, cheap T34s, barrage on AT gun, etc.
Its called async balance.

Kek

• Maxim is not "trash" unless you think that "not being instapin MG42" is a trashy quality. Then you would be a simpleton.
  
• I don't really think so. MG42 is definitely not an "offensive" MG. It has a huge arc of fire, because it must be able to defensively close down an area. It has huge setup time, so no point in moving it.
  
• That's a huge huge huge strawman. If a grenadier walks up in front of the Maxim he may not get instapinned like MG42 but will certainly be suppressed, meaning they cannot fire the rifle gren from the distance they would have. Same goes for PzGrens. Sure they have an amazing grenade, but that is for killing it from the rear or very front of a machine gun. The scenario you have in your mind "walk in front of a Maxim with PzGrens and they will instantly wipe it" is a pipedream for axis players.
  
• What you say is true stats wise but you are simply reaffirming what I said earlier. No point in fighting over what faction "has better stats" simply because we are comparing apples to SKANIA trucks. Just not the same. Don't point out ridiculous sub-arguments in order to move away from the original discussion. I called it first by saying: stay on the topic of Maxim, do not talk about faction design imbalances/asymmetries. Also, if you unironically think that Cons are """non-scalable, hence 7men upgrade""" excuse me but your issues are simply L2P ones. Cons are amazing cannon fodder that can man everything, snare everything, reinforce everything. Again, this is what you get wrong about the game design. Not every unit you have is meant to just straight up kill, and not every faction has got to have the same objectives as the other. Broaden your vision of the game plz.
  
  3 Cons plus 2 Guards for example is an amazing AI squad and utilizing the Merge ability becomes dirt cheap to reinforce. Do you think we should make another thread on why "Merge" is an OP ability and should be given to all factions?
  
  
• Ok let's make Maxim 240mp, I personally could not care less.
  
  

- why buy a machine gun that does not do it's job?
-"the MG-42 isn't an offensive MG, because it has a long setup time" brother, the maxim an equal setup time, who would call that a "good offensive MG"?
-the maxim was infamous because axis infantry blobs could straight up walk up to it frontally, and simply death loop the MG. They apparently fixed the issue, but only partially. Regardless, it is a "strawman" purely because I did not mention that you need two squads, one to bait the maxim, and the other to simply nade or bypass the firing arc. I obviously expected an axis main to know his basic strats, but i guess i was wrong

-some gibberish nonsense, i will not bother replying to this

- 3 cons 2 guards is manpower heavy but a good, standard army comp. Merge lets you reinforce for cheaper, but conscripts retain their defensive stats and will die easier than the guard models, so it isn't some 1300 IQ korean strategy

So no-one care that in teamgames, on good half of the maps maxim even with its smaller ark is able to lock large chunks of the maps.

...

No, we don't. It's good only when used with an assault Ambulance, and even then it's only good for awhile. It costs about the same as the MG42 and the MG34 which are vastly superior. Saying that it is able to lock down "large chunks" of the map is an overstatement. It does cost too much and have too high of a pop cap for it's current performance.

- why buy a machine gun that does not do it's job?
-"the MG-42 isn't an offensive MG, because it has a long setup time" brother, the maxim an equal setup time, who would call that a "good offensive MG"?
-the maxim was infamous because axis infantry blobs could straight up walk up to it frontally, and simply death loop the MG. They apparently fixed the issue, but only partially. Regardless, it is a "strawman" purely because I did not mention that you need two squads, one to bait the maxim, and the other to simply nade or bypass the firing arc. I obviously expected an axis main to know his basic strats, but i guess i was wrong

-some gibberish nonsense, i will not bother replying to this

- 3 cons 2 guards is manpower heavy but a good, standard army comp. Merge lets you reinforce for cheaper, but conscripts retain their defensive stats and will die easier than the guard models, so it isn't some 1300 IQ korean strategy

• You did not mention it at all, yet you are trying to hide from it by saying "it's standard OST strategy". My mate nothing in this forum is "standard" nor "trivial".
  
• OK so I guess your reading comprehension is not up to my standards so there is really no point.
  
• That was just an example to show you that not every unit in this game need to be combat effective in order to be a good unit. Do not try to take the last remnants of flavor because you somehow think that would make it ok.
  

And after all, if you have to write 3 pages+ full of nonsense only to arrive at the conclusion "reduce maxim cost by 20mp" I would gladly agree to that based on the retardedness of this thread alone.

the DSHK is considered a good machine gun by most people, although the firing arc is really restrictive

it could use a slightly larger firing arc

That is the problem though, the firing arc sucks considering it is doctrinal and more expensive than the maxim it should be better but it is equal if not worse to the maxim. It is not terrible but Imagine if the Command Panther from OKW didnt have the command aura and was just a regular panther with a call in that wasn't any better than the stock variant that is what the DHSK is. The marginal improve in stats that it gets is off set by the higher reinforcement cost, higher upfront cost, significantly worse ability and Vet 1 compared to Maxim.

Now that is not to say it is bad, it is decent but considering the Doctrinal/Cost should at least be close to MG-34 or even Mg-42 in terms of performance. At the moment its just Maxim for people who can't be bothered to use Suppressing Fire which is not good enough.

Even if Maxim was the worst MG in the game (its not) but lets just say that it was, it would make sense considering Soviets are the only faction with two different HMGs with the DHSK being a clear upgrade path which at the moment it isn't.

Also speaking of Upgrades the best way to make Maxim and DSHK "better" is to allow it to be upgraded to DSHK for say 60 Ammo or so and balance it around that.

As someone who mainly plays Soviets, I think the Maxim is good if you manage your expectations. It won't be as good as the 42 because nothing is. Wehrmacht is designed around having strong team weapons, and weaker mainlines to compensate.

The main power of the maxim is the hilarious group suppression it has. for every infuriating time some pgren has crawled through my maxims suppression to yeet a bundlenade on it, or my poor maxim got face wiped by a g43 blob without even firing a shot, theres another time where the maxim with sustained fire suppresses an entire push within a second, regardless of whether or not half of the army was in its arc or not.

If any mg needs love its the 50 cal. mediocre suppression and damage because of bad ROF, bad arc, and a small squad size to get easily death looped, so it has none of the benefits of the vickers and maxim, and all of their flaws lmao. Now the Vickers basically does the 50 cals main selling point better once the vickers gets vet 1.

That is the problem though, the firing arc sucks considering it is doctrinal and more expensive than the maxim it should be better but it is equal if not worse to the maxim. It is not terrible but Imagine if the Command Panther from OKW didnt have the command aura and was just a regular panther with a call in that wasn't any better than the stock variant that is what the DHSK is. The marginal improve in stats that it gets is off set by the higher reinforcement cost, higher upfront cost, significantly worse ability and Vet 1 compared to Maxim.

Now that is not to say it is bad, it is decent but considering the Doctrinal/Cost should at least be close to MG-34 or even Mg-42 in terms of performance. At the moment its just Maxim for people who can't be bothered to use Suppressing Fire which is not good enough.

Even if Maxim was the worst MG in the game (its not) but lets just say that it was, it would make sense considering Soviets are the only faction with two different HMGs with the DHSK being a clear upgrade path which at the moment it isn't.

Also speaking of Upgrades the best way to make Maxim and DSHK "better" is to allow it to be upgraded to DSHK for say 60 Ammo or so and balance it around that.

The DSHK has the exact same reinforcement cost as the Maxim and it performs better than the maxim, but that is not much of a standard now is it, at least it suppresses compared to the maxim, the setup time is supposed to be shorter to compensate for the small arc of fire