Osttruppen

Next Patch changes Ostruppen

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Imo this changes will not fix the issues since the problem lies with the design and not unit.

Current design has OT designed as Grenadier Ver.2.

They get similar weapon (LMG/faust/K98) minus grenade, build from the same building and in reality do not bring anything new to the table. This design makes OT directly compete with grenadiers while taking up a commander slot and they are bound to either better or worse than grenadiers and basically flirt from being OP to being useless.

In addition any changes to Grenadier has direct impact on them also.

That is why imo a full redesign should be considered, a redesign that should focus on adding utility on the unit instead and different play style.

A number of possible solution for redesign could include the following Suggestion:
Remove the LMG upgrade, concentrate DPS on squad with many entities is not a good design.

Offer a different upgrade other then a weapon (similar to 7 conscripts) like changing the base target size to 1.

Make them better as crews for support weapons possibly by increase crew numbers to 5 0r 6.

Replace the cover bonus mechanism with a garrison bonus making them ideal to hold house or trenches.

Give them a number of abilities increasing their utility:

Grenade/molotov

a "hit the dirt" timed ability that scale with veterancy

AT grenade/sprint

merge

Volley fire

Give them different weapon upgrades like:

AT rifles (PTRS or Busen)

Soviet SMG (PPsh)

Imo one should make the unit work with grenadier instead of simply replacing them.

Keep in mind the next patch is basically the last one, so complete overhauls of units or abilities are not an option. There is not enough room for testing and potential reverting afterwards

They don´t have the exact same design as Grens

Grens are a smaller, more expensive, high quality unit

These guys are meatshields, underequipped, untrained, with an "I dont care if you just sniped three of us, here comes fourth one" strategy and you can count on them... no really, you can.

Sure there are similarities, like both being meant for long range defensive combat, but thats all

That being said, I do like the idea with 7th man upgrade, just not sure if such change is really needed

prosttruppen were originally design as cheap defensive meatshields for the other glass cannon 4men osther infantry units. Consider back then Soviets have pre-nerf oneshot 120mm mortar, B4, ISU152, IS2. etc..

somewhere down the timeline the purpose was changed into gren V2.

my personal option, osttruppen should go back to their original design (meatshields)

Grens and Ostruppen are played completely differently. If unit requires different playstyle, that's already a working design imo.

The question is: Can you count on osttruppen now or can you not?

prosttruppen were originally design as cheap defensive meatshields

the good old days when Osttruppen were 120 manpower to build, 10mp to reinforce and had a de-/capture rate of 50%

Keep in mind the next patch is basically the last one, so complete overhauls of units or abilities are not an option. There is not enough room for testing and potential reverting afterwards

Last patch argument does not really apply, Osttruppen are being patches and the new changes can also lead to them being UP or OP.

Complete overhaul argument also does not apply since they have being "overhauled" by the MOD team.
It was the LMG and T1 that turned them to Gren ver. 2 so instead of continuing done this path reverting is safer.

Last patch argument does not really apply, Osttruppen are being patches and the new changes can also lead to them being UP or OP.

Complete overhaul argument also does not apply since they have being "overhauled" by the MOD team.
It was the LMG and T1 that turned them to Gren ver. 2 so instead of continuing done this path reverting is safer.

Of course both apply.
The effect of a small tweak is easier to determine beforehand than a complete overhaul. Breaking a unit on the last patch is quite a risk for the game.

That being said, I agree with most of your suggestions. I don't see them as much as 'grens v2' as you do, since Osttruppen focus much more on survivability and trading from cover. But yes, their general profile shares similarities.
From a design point, I'd rather have them reworked too. Given that this seems to be the last patch, I understand that the balance teams aims for tweaks only.

Imagine loving conscripts so much, but also hating soviets so much that you'd rather suggest changing axis unit into cons instead of just playing with cons as soviets.

the good old days when Osttruppen were 120 manpower to build, 10mp to reinforce and had a de-/capture rate of 50%

aah the good ol times of marching 15 squads of prosttrupen headon into the soviet maxim spam just like WW1

Imagine loving conscripts so much, but also hating soviets so much that you'd rather suggest changing axis unit into cons instead of just playing with cons as soviets.

xD

Jesus, and i thought that me wanting a SU-76m rework was bad

Grens and Ostruppen are played completely differently. If unit requires different playstyle, that's already a working design imo.

The are both defensive infatry suitable for long range fights and with the latest changes their timing is about the same and the have similar weapon upgrades.

And with changes to ATG there are not even that good as weapon crews.

The overlap is simply too high.

Will probably have to wait and see but the first sings seem to have move Osttruppen from Top pick to oblivion.

Will probably have to wait and see but the first sings seem to have move Osttruppen from Top pick to oblivion.

*smol violin plays a sweet, tiny song*

Remove lmg42 upgrade and replace it with merg ability upgrade.

Remove lmg42 upgrade and replace it with merg ability upgrade.

Merge with a base target size of 1.25 would rather pointless. The upgrade should loser base size to around 1.

The are both defensive infatry suitable for long range fights and with the latest changes their timing is about the same and the have similar weapon upgrades.

And with changes to ATG there are not even that good as weapon crews.

The overlap is simply too high.

they still play completely differently. Just go and do 10x 1v1 matches with them and tell me how these units similar when you actually use them and not comparing paper data like stats, equipment, timing etc.

Will probably have to wait and see but the first sings seem to have move Osttruppen from Top pick to oblivion.

and finally come out from a perpetual ban in some tournaments.

they still play completely differently. Just go and do 10x 1v1 matches with them and tell me how these units similar when you actually use them and not comparing paper data like stats, equipment, timing etc.


and finally come out from a perpetual ban in some tournaments.

I have used Ostruppen and they are used a long range defensive infatry the same Gren are being used.

And if they fall to oblivion it will probably be because of their poor desing.