oh man.. rifle andes are OP? really..
.7 fuse para/shock troop use, that is OP.
Rifle nade mostly does 0-30% hp dmg in 9 out of 10 shots.
Gren Rifle nade is to powerful.
3 Sep 2021, 14:01 PM
#41
Posts: 321
- Who has time? ... But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have time? huh?
3 Sep 2021, 18:41 PM
#42
Posts: 197
oh man.. rifle andes are OP? really..
.7 fuse para/shock troop use, that is OP.
Rifle nade mostly does 0-30% hp dmg in 9 out of 10 shots.
Shock troops can't lob that grenade 35 meters over cover and deny you that said cover, then punish you by wiping your entire squad due to models clumping up if you react too late do they?
Moreover, rifle grenades don't even have a fuse timer on their grenades, they explode on impact making them much better than either of these two.Especially since if you move out of cover to dodge the nade the MG42 burst DPS is gonna drop 1-2 models out of your squad.
3 Sep 2021, 19:26 PM
#43
Posts: 682
Grens op af
/s
3 Sep 2021, 22:35 PM
#44
Posts: 658
Lofty idea but far more punishing against smaller squads
On the contrary smaller squads tend to get wiped by grenades more often than larger squads. Can't remember the last time I had a conscript squad deleted outright by a grenade where as it happens quite frequently with Grenadiers.
An instance that would have wiped your squad would have been avoided so this buffs smaller squads more than it would with larger squads.
Also to clarify a 2-3 model cap doesn't mean the rest take no damage, it just means squad members killed would be capped.
4 Sep 2021, 00:17 AM
#45
Posts: 1158
so they just get popped off afterwards since they live with 1% health
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
4 Sep 2021, 06:39 AM
#46
Posts: 1289
On the contrary smaller squads tend to get wiped by grenades more often than larger squads. Can't remember the last time I had a conscript squad deleted outright by a grenade where as it happens quite frequently with Grenadiers.
An instance that would have wiped your squad would have been avoided so this buffs smaller squads more than it would with larger squads.
Also to clarify a 2-3 model cap doesn't mean the rest take no damage, it just means squad members killed would be capped.
Imo the only annoying about the rifle nade is how powerfull it is vs units clumped in yellow cover.
Units tend to clump up in yellow cover. Allowinf for easy wipes from long range.
I would nerf its damage in yellow cover a bit.
The rest is fine, this way you will still do very good damage vs clumped units in yellow cover without outright wiping full health squads (wich is the only problem) You will also be able to destroy the yellow cover and have improved accuracy on the inf.
4 Sep 2021, 07:43 AM
#47
Posts: 177
yeah I agree.
RifleNade has very longrange and explode on impact.
I prefer range nerf.
riflenade also have animation glitching.Gren didn't play animation but still fire a riflenade.
RifleNade has very longrange and explode on impact.
I prefer range nerf.
riflenade also have animation glitching.Gren didn't play animation but still fire a riflenade.
4 Sep 2021, 14:36 PM
#48
Posts: 1594
Imo the only annoying about the rifle nade is how powerfull it is vs units clumped in yellow cover.
Units tend to clump up in yellow cover. Allowinf for easy wipes from long range.
I would nerf its damage in yellow cover a bit.
The rest is fine, this way you will still do very good damage vs clumped units in yellow cover without outright wiping full health squads (wich is the only problem) You will also be able to destroy the yellow cover and have improved accuracy on the inf.
I mean, a solution might also to be trying to avoid having an entire conscript squad use a single bush as cover. The click/drag method usually results in people being spaced decently in cover, assuming there's actually enough cover to begin with.
4 Sep 2021, 16:14 PM
#49
Posts: 593
yeah I agree.
RifleNade has very longrange and explode on impact.
I prefer range nerf.
riflenade also have animation glitching.Gren didn't play animation but still fire a riflenade.
agreed
how far can they shoot the nade while pinned?
4 Sep 2021, 17:25 PM
#50
Posts: 1158
you can't shoot at all while pinned of course
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
4 Sep 2021, 20:38 PM
#51
Posts: 177
agreed
how far can they shoot the nade while pinned?
around 60% of range .
A problem is not use while pinned but Its power compare to other nade.
5 Sep 2021, 02:42 AM
#52
Posts: 1289
I mean, a solution might also to be trying to avoid having an entire conscript squad use a single bush as cover. The click/drag method usually results in people being spaced decently in cover, assuming there's actually enough cover to begin with.
I see your point, but it has been evident over the last couple of years that the devs or balance team implemented many changes so that squads dont get one shotted often or at all without requiering player input to avoid it. Model caps, damage reduction, aoe nerfs.
5 Sep 2021, 15:25 PM
#53
Posts: 1594
I see your point, but it has been evident over the last couple of years that the devs or balance team implemented many changes so that squads dont get one shotted often or at all without requiering player input to avoid it. Model caps, damage reduction, aoe nerfs.
Most (if not all?) of this has been introduced in order to tone down autofire explosives (tank cannons, mortars, etc), mines, or rocket artillery though. Other than Gren damage reduction grenades have largely been left "as-is", since they're a targetted and short-ranged munitions ability rather than something "free", so they're i suppose "allowed" to geek entire squads.
I will say that I don't like that grenade oneshots of squads are a "thing" though. It's difficult to solve that issue entirely though, due to the wide range of squad sizes, and a lack of granularity in balancing certain tools vs certain units. Model caps on grenades, for example, benefits factions like SOV rather more than OST, due to the former having individually less valuable models (and simply more models in general).
Hopefully CoH3 has a more elegant solution to this. I really don't think a momentary lapse in concentration should result in an entire squad evaporating, with how focused the game is on veterancy acquisition and maintenance.
5 Sep 2021, 16:43 PM
#54
Posts: 1289
Most (if not all?) of this has been introduced in order to tone down autofire explosives (tank cannons, mortars, etc), mines, or rocket artillery though. Other than Gren damage reduction grenades have largely been left "as-is", since they're a targetted and short-ranged munitions ability rather than something "free", so they're i suppose "allowed" to geek entire squads.
I will say that I don't like that grenade oneshots of squads are a "thing" though. It's difficult to solve that issue entirely though, due to the wide range of squad sizes, and a lack of granularity in balancing certain tools vs certain units. Model caps on grenades, for example, benefits factions like SOV rather more than OST, due to the former having individually less valuable models (and simply more models in general).
Hopefully CoH3 has a more elegant solution to this. I really don't think a momentary lapse in concentration should result in an entire squad evaporating, with how focused the game is on veterancy acquisition and maintenance.
I feel the same. And most of the changes mostly benifitted ost. And left those abilities from ost wich could one shot untouched for what ever reason.
Thats why imo adjusting the yellow cover damage modifier for the rifle nade to 0.7 or 0.8 is a quick and elegant solution. This should be implemented in this patch imo.
5 Sep 2021, 19:02 PM
#55
Posts: 1158
that's not entirely true, the brumbar was changed to 2 shot squads
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
5 Sep 2021, 19:16 PM
#56
Posts: 1289
that's not entirely true, the brumbar was changed to 2 shot squads
I dint even remember it one shotting. But good change none the less.
6 Sep 2021, 07:22 AM
#57
Posts: 321
- no, but within that 25 m range they can and deal far more damage (close range nade + close range weapons vs. long range nade + long range weapons).
Shock troops can't lob that grenade 35 meters over cover and deny you that said cover, then punish you by wiping your entire squad due to models clumping up if you react too late do they?
Moreover, rifle grenades don't even have a fuse timer on their grenades, they explode on impact making them much better than either of these two.- Maybe they need a timer like the rear echelon riflenade (though that one fires free and on auto-fire), but then the nade needs to be more consistent. Maybe less spike damage and more overal damage?
Especially since if you move out of cover to dodge the nade the MG42 burst DPS is gonna drop 1-2 models out of your squad.- don't leave your 50% damage reduction modifier?
- Who has time? ... But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have time? huh?
7 Sep 2021, 22:20 PM
#58
Posts: 1379
- no, but within that 25 m range they can and deal far more damage (close range nade + close range weapons vs. long range nade + long range weapons).
And of course with that you have to consider that shock troops are only dealing good damage within that close range area, where grens can hammer them on the approach with LMGs.
Maybe they need a timer like the rear echelon riflenade (though that one fires free and on auto-fire), but then the nade needs to be more consistent. Maybe less spike damage and more overal damage?
Honestly the damage as it is now is beyond acceptable for its range. If it gets a timer like RE nades then it needs to have a faster casting animation though IMO.
don't leave your 50% damage reduction modifier?
Obviously, but yellow cover gives no such damage reduction.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
8 Sep 2021, 15:49 PM
#59
Posts: 1289
Yellow cover modifier for the riflenade should give a slight damage reduction to avoid cheesy one shots. Thats all.
Other things such as teller should drop from one shotting all lights for a measely 50 muni to leaving the lv with 20 or 40 hp and damaged engine.
This way ost needs to follow up like other factions do. Because one shotting has been nerfed hard for many factions, ost should follow suit.
Other things such as teller should drop from one shotting all lights for a measely 50 muni to leaving the lv with 20 or 40 hp and damaged engine.
This way ost needs to follow up like other factions do. Because one shotting has been nerfed hard for many factions, ost should follow suit.
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