the AVRE is fine as it is
if the AVRE had sturmtiger stats, UKF would be the highest winrate faction, straight up
u r right the AVRE have better stats than the sturm let alone the turret
The state of Sturmtiger
23 Jul 2021, 02:47 AM
#41
Posts: 33
u r right the AVRE have better stats than the sturm let alone the turret
23 Jul 2021, 03:31 AM
#42
Posts: 479
Yeah mind boggling a unit this annoying previously was buffed. But knowing balance team if 49.99% of the community thinks its overperforming they will argue that everyone else thinks its balanced. If the unit is going to be this strong, multiple other things need to be reverted. KT and Sturmtiger should not be available together and it should get abandoned if somebody shoots it while reloading so they can at least wipe veterancy off the unit if the opponent makes a mistake with the unit. Again multiple people said this would be a problem before the patch came out and they decided to ignore that feedback and low and behold the unit is too strong.
23 Jul 2021, 08:58 AM
#43
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
u r right the AVRE have better stats than the sturm let alone the turret
axis players on their way to justify how the ST deserves a very noticeably larger kill radius, squad health gutting and suppression in a massive radius, the most health in the game, better top speed and 10 more range because the AVRE apparently has "better" stats and a turret
yeah, right
the coh2.org forum experience:
23 Jul 2021, 10:40 AM
#44
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Yeah mind boggling a unit this annoying previously was buffed. But knowing balance team if 49.99% of the community thinks its overperforming they will argue that everyone else thinks its balanced. If the unit is going to be this strong, multiple other things need to be reverted. KT and Sturmtiger should not be available together and it should get abandoned if somebody shoots it while reloading so they can at least wipe veterancy off the unit if the opponent makes a mistake with the unit. Again multiple people said this would be a problem before the patch came out and they decided to ignore that feedback and low and behold the unit is too strong.
The mechanism was removed because one could call multiple ST exploiting the abandon mechanism. That was a change in the correct direction.
23 Jul 2021, 11:19 AM
#45
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
IMO it should simply be moved to 10 CP 200 fuel. It is indeed a bit too strong in 3v3 at the moment, can`t speak about the other game modes.
23 Jul 2021, 11:35 AM
#46
Posts: 472
u r right the AVRE have better stats than the sturm let alone the turret
Please do share with me on what stat AVRE has better than ST. Armor maybe? (Despite the ST has highet HP)
23 Jul 2021, 11:46 AM
#47
Posts: 772
u r right the AVRE have better stats than the sturm let alone the turret
ISU has no turret unlike KV2, but it is rated a lot higher in teamgames. Guess why.
23 Jul 2021, 21:10 PM
#48
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I'd really like someone from the balance team come and tell us how you counter it when it arrives before your sole counter.
And then how you counter it with a unique jackson, how you do to force it to retreat before shooting.
And then how you counter it with a unique jackson, how you do to force it to retreat before shooting.
25 Jul 2021, 14:37 PM
#49
Posts: 87
I think it's 'Slightly Overpowered'
So I think some light nerf IDEAs
First. nerf CP 8 to 9
Second. nerf fuel 165 to 175~185
Third. nerf POP 18 to 19~20
fourth. nerf NahVW grenade launch munition 20 to 30~35.
can be nerfed clearly. but not too much.
I just gave light nerfs can be adjusted all in one time but not critical.
So I think some light nerf IDEAs
First. nerf CP 8 to 9
Second. nerf fuel 165 to 175~185
Third. nerf POP 18 to 19~20
fourth. nerf NahVW grenade launch munition 20 to 30~35.
can be nerfed clearly. but not too much.
I just gave light nerfs can be adjusted all in one time but not critical.
25 Jul 2021, 21:59 PM
#50
Posts: 732
I think now it could make grenade be auto attack （like ostwind maingun），and return it lock out KT.
Other opinion，could switch with JagerTiger...JagerTiger for ElitePanzer commander，ST for Breakthrough commander
Other opinion，could switch with JagerTiger...JagerTiger for ElitePanzer commander，ST for Breakthrough commander
25 Jul 2021, 22:03 PM
#51
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
This is honestly in need of it's own mini patch. Played against it 3 games in a row today, and then teammates used it 2 games in a row. It's fucking ridiculous
The total lack of skill required to use this thing is incredible. Needs a signigicant change
Needs to be standstill while reloading again. Honestly that shouldve been common fucking sense when they removed the decrew mechanic, totally amazed they removed it with no replacement
The total lack of skill required to use this thing is incredible. Needs a signigicant change
Needs to be standstill while reloading again. Honestly that shouldve been common fucking sense when they removed the decrew mechanic, totally amazed they removed it with no replacement
26 Jul 2021, 06:38 AM
#52
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
They should reduce its range to 30 with no increase with vet. This thing have a lot of armor and hitpoints so make them useful for something.
26 Jul 2021, 07:21 AM
#53
Posts: 518
just a quick question: Was abandon of ST ever abused anyways? Never saw it being done and honestly it is a lot of work that might not even be worth it
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
26 Jul 2021, 07:40 AM
#54
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
just a quick question: Was abandon of ST ever abused anyways? Never saw it being done and honestly it is a lot of work that might not even be worth it
No, it was just considered unfair to lose your vet on the Sturmtiger which in return is design to wipe squads (and vet)
Don't look for logic here, there are none.
26 Jul 2021, 07:52 AM
#55
Posts: 1515
just a quick question: Was abandon of ST ever abused anyways? Never saw it being done and honestly it is a lot of work that might not even be worth it
It wasn't. It's too much pop for one player to eat with only 2 units that fulfill the one role. Shock wipe unit.
It was a good mechanic that didn't allow OKW players to just pop reload as soon as they fired the shot. Not only is sturm tanky AF, the shock of seeing it is really high. You know you have to retreat the units as soon as you see it because the running speed of units is not high enough to get out of the wipe radius once the sturm starts aiming (unless the strum aims poorly). So in worst case, you force retreats from all teamweapons and possibly wipe AT gun or two, pop reload, and backpedal it to safety. AVRE is cancerous, but nowhere near as cancerous as the Sturm, especially Sturm with vet.
In best case, you wipe 3-4 squads with it. Once it vets up, at that point you can play sturm any way you want it. It has 40 range, coupled with kubel from the start that is scouting (good players usually have a vetted kubel in lategame sitting behind, scouting), or any sight from the teammate, you have complete dominance over a VP point.
To give you an example. On Lienne forest you can completely control the middle VP if you're spawned on top. The shell will no longer collide with the train and the train will be a shotblocker/sightblocker and you don't have to worry by some out of place indirect shell decrewing your ST as it reloads. Anyone will half a brain will not let the middle VP be captured, and if your teammate has some pak43s, easily park them behind the building to really stop any and all tank pushes as the pak43 can easily shoot through buildings whilst the building provides sight block. Played a lot of such games, on both sides. Pak43 spam + my ST, never lost on lienne if I spawned up top. You completely give up one VP, focus on mid and closest one, park the sturm behind the train, supported by pak43 and 2x sturms and you're gucci. The allies would need a hail Marry attempt with the tanks/infantry to push through. But that's why you have double sturmpios to plant mines. But then again. Lienne is a trash map.
Sturmtiger was never abused, and if it was, it was a serious handicap for the player that abused it
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
26 Jul 2021, 08:35 AM
#56
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
just a quick question: Was abandon of ST ever abused anyways? Never saw it being done and honestly it is a lot of work that might not even be worth it
Yes it was beeing exploited.
People even fired on their own ST to de-crew it.
If you search you can even find videos of Top players playing with multiple ST.
Things could even uglier in teamgames where one could supply ST to his teammates.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbEEBCFQdno)
Removing the abandon mechanism was a step in the right direction.
26 Jul 2021, 09:55 AM
#57
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
just a quick question: Was abandon of ST ever abused anyways? Never saw it being done and honestly it is a lot of work that might not even be worth it
Technically it's still a way to remove the 1 unit cap on the ST (does it even have one? I'm not sure, but if not I'd vote for it).
26 Jul 2021, 10:34 AM
#58
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
Yes it was beeing exploited.
People even fired on their own ST to de-crew it.
If you search you can even find videos of Top players playing with multiple ST.
Things could even uglier in teamgames where one could supply ST to his teammates.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbEEBCFQdno)
Removing the abandon mechanism was a step in the right direction.
i think only the part of gifting STs to your teammates ever really had the potential to be exploited. two STs per player would eat up too much popcap to be viable, especially in a 1v1, so that's never been a huge problem. i guess the abandon mechanic did allow to get both the KT and the ST in the past, but since these are no longer mutually exclusive it would't be an issue if abandon got reintroduced.
however, it's still a rather random and unpredictable mechanic that didn't really add much to the game. imho immobilizing the tank for the duration of the reload, plus maybe a received damage debuff would be a better approach to make the ST a bit easier to hunt down and more risky to use.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
26 Jul 2021, 14:01 PM
#59
Posts: 772
I think balance team a great job with decrew mechanic. Imagine couple of STs with improved shell collision in some team game covered by raks and just obliterating everything. At least you can't multiply it now
26 Jul 2021, 16:49 PM
#60
Posts: 518
I think balance team a great job with decrew mechanic. Imagine couple of STs with improved shell collision in some team game covered by raks and just obliterating everything. At least you can't multiply it now
Hmm ... if it was even done by Hans and not only by ppl like Skippy then I guess it was a valid change. But why didn't they simply make it impossible to reload or at least start reloading while under fire?
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
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