The state of Sturmtiger

This unit has massive armor and health then let's make a use of it

I've seen several people post this. Yes it has a massive amount of hitpoints (1280-1440), but the armor is nothing special. 220-242/110-121 front/rear armor is bad for a heavy vehicle. For comparison, the AVRE has 290/180 armor.

When doing balance comparisons/reviews, its armor is definitely not a factor to take into consideration. It won't bounce much. Its durability comes mostly from raw health.

if your penal can even get close enough before dying the satchel barely scratches the paint on this thing

no engine damage

abused every team game, if it's not a problem then soemthing isn't right with the balance team

I've seen several people post this. Yes it has a massive amount of hitpoints (1280-1440), but the armor is nothing special. 220-242/110-121 front/rear armor is bad for a heavy vehicle. For comparison, the AVRE has 290/180 armor.

When doing balance comparisons/reviews, its armor is definitely not a factor to take into consideration. It won't bounce much. Its durability comes mostly from raw health.

220 armor is a big deal when you already need 8 shots to take it down. Only TDs have an impact on it which is part of the struggle to counter it. If it had like 150 armor then a couple of mediums tanks would able to counter it.
So yes, its armor is definitely a factor to take into consideration. It doesn't mean reducing it is the solution but reducing it can be part of it.

I've seen several people post this. Yes it has a massive amount of hitpoints (1280-1440), but the armor is nothing special. 220-242/110-121 front/rear armor is bad for a heavy vehicle. For comparison, the AVRE has 290/180 armor.

When doing balance comparisons/reviews, its armor is definitely not a factor to take into consideration. It won't bounce much. Its durability comes mostly from raw health.

We are living in the world of 242 is nothing special?

USF has only 1 unit that has armor higher than 220.
Normal Churchil has 240.

It's not a huge, but it is a decent armor to consider. Especially if it is atached to the 1440 hp monster. It means medium needs to shot a lot more than 8 to kill it.
I blame p4 for this. Basic medium having 234 armor made axis think it's nothing special.

I've seen several people post this. Yes it has a massive amount of hitpoints (1280-1440), but the armor is nothing special. 220-242/110-121 front/rear armor is bad for a heavy vehicle. For comparison, the AVRE has 290/180 armor.

When doing balance comparisons/reviews, its armor is definitely not a factor to take into consideration. It won't bounce much. Its durability comes mostly from raw health.

It will bounce a lot from a medium and can bounce a long range shot from an AT, but I agree armor is the least problem to worry about in this unit.

I've seen several people post this. Yes it has a massive amount of hitpoints (1280-1440), but the armor is nothing special. 220-242/110-121 front/rear armor is bad for a heavy vehicle. For comparison, the AVRE has 290/180 armor.

When doing balance comparisons/reviews, its armor is definitely not a factor to take into consideration. It won't bounce much. Its durability comes mostly from raw health.

While I agree that the armor value itself is nothing special, it should be taken into account though. Contrary to all other tanks, ATGs don't contribute much to the overall damage. 220 armor for the ST that forces ATGs off the field is different than 220 for a normal tank where the ATG can stand steady under fire.
The problem (with both ST and AVRE) is that the only unit to reliably penetrate is your TD. Mediums are very unreliable (about 45-55%, depending on range and ST vet), ATGs can at the very best only get one shot off before they need to run, but often this one shot already means that you will eat the shell that probably wipes all your vet.
The high health pool means that you won't be able to get the firepower together to kill it in time. You need at least 8 pens to kill it, which will probably translate to 10+ shots from TDs/ATGs. To get this volume of fire, you'll need at least 3 units to have a chance. The ST currently forces a big overinvestment into AT for its price.

What makes the ST broken in my opinion is its veterancy. A vet0 ST might still be okay, but at vet it loses almost all its drawbacks. Normal speed becomes good speed that will make it hard for your TDs to catch up. Mediocre armor becomes decent armor that gives even more trouble to your mediums. Normal range and sight becomes very good range and sight, very good health becomes excellent health. And it vets quite fast overall. A vetted ST is very, very hard to kill unless your opponent throws it greedily, especially given some issues as aiming while still decelerating etc.

The AVRE is a good unit by itself, but both the factions and the commander restrict it well enough to not dominate as much. Mostly because of 35 range and the lack of both a real AT brawler (Comet is decent, but does not complement as well as the Panther) or a fast firing TD like the JP4.

Arguing with Sander the #1 OKW fan is pointless. I mean, 242 armour is nothing special on a 1440 HP monster xD

The audacity of the bias is excruciating here

Name another artillery piece that has 1280 health and 220 armor

Dude you are out of your mind. Literally one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen on this forum

Can you name an arty piece that has 40 range? even with all its armor and hp you still take more risk moving the ST to the frontline then putting a kat or calliope in the back.

Can you name an arty piece that has 40 range? even with all its armor and hp you still take more risk moving the ST to the frontline then putting a kat or calliope in the back.

Never heard of arty shotgunning.
Also, have you ever fought against a sturmtiger? something tells me you haven't

I've seen several people post this. Yes it has a massive amount of hitpoints (1280-1440), but the armor is nothing special. 220-242/110-121 front/rear armor is bad for a heavy vehicle. For comparison, the AVRE has 290/180 armor.

When doing balance comparisons/reviews, its armor is definitely not a factor to take into consideration. It won't bounce much. Its durability comes mostly from raw health.

HP is more important than armor.


the sturmtiger can sustain (i think) two su-85 hits and it will still be immune to infantry snare, this is the only tank in the game that is capable of this. The armor still makes it bounce half the shots of most soviet mediums frontally

You risk much more driving frontally into two AT guns with an AVRE than you will EVER do with a sturmtiger, axis have higher penetration AT options anyway, that extra armor wont aid the avre much.

220 armor is a big deal when you already need 8 shots to take it down. Only TDs have an impact on it which is part of the struggle to counter it. If it had like 150 armor then a couple of mediums tanks would able to counter it.
So yes, its armor is definitely a factor to take into consideration. It doesn't mean reducing it is the solution but reducing it can be part of it.

I can guarantee you that if you charge 2 AT guns that can fire at max range that ST is not coming home. 220 armor is not much for dedicated AT weapons. Also it should not be countered by mediums except for flanking.

Never heard of arty shotgunning.
Also, have you ever fought against a sturmtiger? something tells me you haven't

I love arty shotgunning especially with the calliope . But shotgunning is a choice the sturmtiger doesnt have that choice.

You risk much more driving frontally into two AT guns with an AVRE than you will EVER do with a sturmtiger, axis have higher penetration AT options anyway, that extra armor wont aid the avre much.

Why are you driving frontally into 2 at guns if you have a turret?

We are living in the world of 242 is nothing special?

USF has only 1 unit that has armor higher than 220.
Normal Churchil has 240.

It's not a huge, but it is a decent armor to consider. Especially if it is atached to the 1440 hp monster. It means medium needs to shot a lot more than 8 to kill it.
I blame p4 for this. Basic medium having 234 armor made axis think it's nothing special.

For allies TD its nothing special like at all. Not a single stock medium can reliably fight heavy tanks to begin with, only premium ones (EZ8\T34-85) have at least some chances of doing so.

Name at least 1 unit, besides Panther and heavy tanks, that can reliably fight Allies heavy tanks. The only 2 closest units might be the JP4 and Stug, but both of them are RNG cannons since all their damage comes from supperior firerate but penetration is on pair with premium mediums.

Also how is P4J is a basic medium? Its litteraly the most expensive stock medium of the game and its cost is on pair with premium mediums. Its armor is a trade-off for HP, since it has 640HP while premiums have 800. When it comes to medium vs medium P4J is supperrior due to its armor, but again both EZ8\T34-85 is also supperior then the standart P4.

I love arty shotgunning especially with the calliope . But shotgunning is a choice the sturmtiger doesnt have that choice.




Why are you driving frontally into 2 at guns if you have a turret?

The sturmtiger has 1400 hp, it can survive

+ I would gladly remove the turret rotation for sturmtiger range and wiping radius, not even the health

For allies TD its nothing special like at all. Not a single stock medium can reliably fight heavy tanks to begin with, only premium ones (EZ8\T34-85) have at least some chances of doing so.

Name at least 1 unit, besides Panther and heavy tanks, that can reliably fight Allies heavy tanks. The only 2 closest units might be the JP4 and Stug, but both of them are RNG cannons since all their damage comes from supperior firerate but penetration is on pair with premium mediums.

Also how is P4J is a basic medium? Its litteraly the most expensive stock medium of the game and its cost is on pair with premium mediums. Its armor is a trade-off for HP, since it has 640HP while premiums have 800. When it comes to medium vs medium P4J is supperrior due to its armor, but again both EZ8\T34-85 is also supperior then the standart P4.

I think the point was that maybe ST should be fragile enough to have decent chance to be penetrated by medium tanks. Nobody said that P4J should have lower armor etc, because at 8CPs, more often then not, you can afford a ST and just indefinitely bully your opponent without fear or repercussions.

I can guarantee you that if you charge 2 AT guns that can fire at max range that ST is not coming home. 220 armor is not much for dedicated AT weapons. Also it should not be countered by mediums except for flanking.

Related to topic:
Sturmtiger going in blindly against two ZIS-3s and one SU-85. the SU-85 misses at the end, but it had enough health to survive another shot

Related to topic:
Sturmtiger going in blindly against two ZIS-3s and one SU-85. the SU-85 misses at the end, but it had enough health to survive another shot

If you place your AT guns that close to each other you deserve to get bombed.

If you place your AT guns that close to each other you deserve to get bombed.

not supposed to be a realistic scenario, simply proves that the ST can tank even more than 2 AT guns and walk away

While I agree that the armor value itself is nothing special, it should be taken into account though. Contrary to all other tanks, ATGs don't contribute much to the overall damage. 220 armor for the ST that forces ATGs off the field is different than 220 for a normal tank where the ATG can stand steady under fire.

ATGs have an 82-95% chance to pen it. TDs have an 95-100% chance to pen it. Premium mediums like the Easy 8 and Comet have over 70% chance to pen it. Heavies like the Pershing, IS-2 and even ISU-152 are at 91-100% chance to pen. These chances drop with 5-7% when the ST hits vet 2, but ATGs and TDs also get a pen increase with vet to even the odds. The armor will hardly bounce anything late game that isn't a medium tank, and is not part of the issues with this unit at all.

Obviously the Sturmtiger's high durability is an issue. But that durability comes almost exclusively from health, not armor. I'd happily have it drop at least 160 health so it can't be run around as carelessly.

For allies TD its nothing special like at all. Not a single stock medium can reliably fight heavy tanks to begin with, only premium ones (EZ8\T34-85) have at least some chances of doing so.

Let's not forget that we are speaking of ST that comes at cp 8 / 165 fuels with 1280 hp that goes up to 1440.
You are admitting that TD is the only option against it? Those "heavy tanks" you are mentioning comes much late (cp13) with much higher price (230+) with lower hp. Yet, allies needs to go blindly for more than 2 TD to counter ST?

Name at least 1 unit, besides Panther and heavy tanks, that can reliably fight Allies heavy tanks. The only 2 closest units might be the JP4 and Stug, but both of them are RNG cannons since all their damage comes from supperior firerate but penetration is on pair with premium mediums.

How many tank units are left beside Panther / Tigher / KT / JT / JP4 / Stug?

You name one allies unit that can reliably fight heavy tanks except Jackson / SU-85 / Firefly. That's just one unit from each faction.

And again, I'm talking about 242 armor unit that costs 165 fuel with cp 8 here. I have no idea why you are keep brining "allies heavy tanks" into this.

Did someone complained about axis heavy tanks? Or does allies heavies comes at cp 8 with 165 fuel with one-shot nuke skill?

Don't even go near to ST is also an heavy please. Because ST is officially not an exclusive to one heavy on the field rule.

Also how is P4J is a basic medium? Its litteraly the most expensive stock medium of the game and its cost is on pair with premium mediums. Its armor is a trade-off for HP, since it has 640HP while premiums have 800. When it comes to medium vs medium P4J is supperrior due to its armor, but again both EZ8\T34-85 is also supperior then the standart P4.

It's basic medium because it comes without commander? And I said "p4" because even normal p4 gets 234 armor at vet2. Commander units (in all faction) tends to have better stat than basic units because...
because they are commander units.

800 hp is exclusive to t34/85 only. Even E8 you keep bringing has 720 hp with 215 armor.

And I say this again, there is not much an allies unit that comes better armor than that. Count it yourself.

not supposed to be a realistic scenario, simply proves that the ST can tank even more than 2 AT guns and walk away

BS. In a realistic scenario, the su85 and 1 AT gun would have killed the ST when its on the retreat. So thank you for proving my point.