Change rush-walking stuka timing for 3v3/4v4

WARNING: I know this is very debatable topic.
And I do believe OKW needs some buff on late-game volks(with possibly buff on 4-5 vet maybe) to compensate it's low WR in 1v1, but I just wanted to give it a shot.

Despite low WR of OKW in 1v1, it is still dominating faction in 3v3/4v4.
So this suggestion is to minimize impact on OKW in 1v1/2v2, yet somehow make it weak in 3v3/4v4 (or at least delay it's timing).


(https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1614556800/4v4/wermacht?statsSource=top200)
(We will see how Apr. stat is in one or two days after)

My suggestion is make walking stuka locked behind tier3 (with or w/o tier3 upgrade is debatable) but buildable in tier2. Which gives rush-walking stuka about 3~5 min. delay from current timing.

This won't hurt in 1v1 or 2v2 because... Well, because no body rushes to go walking stuka. And when they do need it, you probably already have tier3. It's just too risky to spend first 100 fuel on arty unit.

But this changes in 3v3 or 4v4. The risk gets very minimum with help of allies / how game goes (line battle). There is very little chance of loosing first walking stuka in mid game. At the time Allies only have at best stuart / AEC / t70.

Walking stuka is the fastest rocket arty that arrives in battle and deals dmg to the line (at around 8~11 min).
All other non-doctrin arty is locked behind final tier, and only thing comes at best similar time is land mattress (sucks hell).

Recently I have not gone for the 3v3 or 4v4, mostly focusing on 1v1 but I have seen many players (especially when they are at AT), at least one player goes for early stuka & rest tiers up for the tank. It makes Allies bleed mp without plausible counter at the moment(again, 8~11 min.).

Any feedback is welcomed.

snip

I would rather have Stuka become cheaper and start with toned down version of incendiary barrage that forces support weapon to move and have the HE barrage locked behind a second truck.

Stuka at mechanized should be cheaper and only arrive with a tweaked free flame barrage.

Once the Flak HQ is deployed should they be able to upgrade the unit for the cost difference and be able to use the HE barrage.

I would rather have Stuka become cheaper and start with toned down version of incendiary barrage that forces support weapon to move and have the HE barrage locked behind a second truck.

Stuka at mechanized should be cheaper and only arrive with a tweaked free flame barrage.

Once the Flak HQ is deployed should they be able to upgrade the unit for the cost difference and be able to use the HE barrage.

Both seems the same opinion. And I guess that would be better instead of not-having the unit at all until tier3. But I'd say overall cost (spawn + upgrade) should be same as current.

Can people stop making every faction the same at some point?

OKW having early rocket arty is one of the faction's perks, why remove it?

Stuka isn't even particularly good unless facing team weapon spam. No need to change anything.

Can people stop making every faction the same at some point?

OKW having early rocket arty is one of the faction's perks, why remove it?

We already gone too far for the sakes of "balancing" between factions. We've already seen what had been done to UKF.

Original OKW (with it's disadvantage in fuel/muni income) had very many advantages but lacked in other things(such as no mgs) but things have been changed.

Stuka isn't even particularly good unless facing team weapon spam. No need to change anything.

It's the only arty with zero scatter. How can it be bad? I do agree if you said it's harder to shoot since you have to make a line (with two clicks).

Zero scatter line rocket arty = easy to predict where it will land, its not necessarily a good thing, its very expensive for what it does.

Both seems the same opinion. And I guess that would be better instead of not-having the unit at all until tier3. But I'd say overall cost (spawn + upgrade) should be same as current.

Cause mechanized without Stuka would feel empty as a tier option.

Although the idea stem from before the current rework to T1 which made medics and ISG more available. The idea was to get an anti garrison tool once you went T2 without having to overcommit on the Stuka.


On a tangent point in regards to mechanized, i think resource conversion/cache could make a return with some tweaks.

Either munition or fuel should be converted from mp.
Or for the same cost as a cache, the mechanized truck could be upgraded to act like it and ONLY giving resources to the player who build it (basically like Opel)

early stuka works fine in 4v4 in case of maxim spam

Cause mechanized without Stuka would feel empty as a tier option.

Although the idea stem from before the current rework to T1 which made medics and ISG more available. The idea was to get an anti garrison tool once you went T2 without having to overcommit on the Stuka.


On a tangent point in regards to mechanized, i think resource conversion/cache could make a return with some tweaks.

Either munition or fuel should be converted from mp.
Or for the same cost as a cache, the mechanized truck could be upgraded to act like it and ONLY giving resources to the player who build it (basically like Opel)

Amazing ideas indeed, hope they get looked at.

stuka is cancer, that is all.

Just change creeping barrage with a normal circular barrage of rockets with higher scatter but larger than usual rocket arty AOE, make the creeping barrage a vet ability so it doesn't pinpoint team weapons and put the flame barrage as buffed ability in incendiary munitions with le.IG flame barrage.

If the creeping barrage is so terrible make it a creeping barrage of Blendkörper style rockets so it just denies area and forces healing but doesn't wipe

Cause mechanized without Stuka would feel empty as a tier option.

Although the idea stem from before the current rework to T1 which made medics and ISG more available. The idea was to get an anti garrison tool once you went T2 without having to overcommit on the Stuka.


On a tangent point in regards to mechanized, i think resource conversion/cache could make a return with some tweaks.

Either munition or fuel should be converted from mp.
Or for the same cost as a cache, the mechanized truck could be upgraded to act like it and ONLY giving resources to the player who build it (basically like Opel)

No please, no God, don't destroy the timings balance.
Right now all vehicles are more or less viable for their timing but not OP.
OKW does NOT need to convert resource imo
What OKW does need to rise 1vs1 WR is being able to set up either Med or Mech hq as second HQ paying and unlocking only the repair/med station (and eventually upgrading to full Tier by paying the full price), and having Volksgrenadier reinforce cost go down by 3 mp points by vet 4/5 in place of that useless late passive healing.

Can people stop making every faction the same at some point?

OKW having early rocket arty is one of the faction's perks, why remove it?

Stuka isn't even particularly good unless facing team weapon spam. No need to change anything.

Agreed that Stuka is one of the perks of OKW.
Not agreed that's it's not that good. In most 3v3 maps, the lanes are quite narrow (Hamburger port) and there are plenty of targets of interest, making stuka quite strong.
But yeah, leave it as it is.

The problem isnt the fast timing of the stuka. Its more about that neither USF nor UKF have stock rocket arty.
Sure you can say now muh faction design/muh army diversity, but we talk about something vital about every army roster. Rocket arty is like an at-gun or a mg, a basic tool you need in like 99% of games. And therefore every army should have stock access to it.
So replace scott with a adjusted calliope and swap an adjusted land mattress for bofors/comet or some shit. And there you have it. Now USF and UKF arent depended on the choice of one commander or their soviet ally.

The problem isnt the fast timing of the stuka. Its more about that neither USF nor UKF have stock rocket arty.
Sure you can say now muh faction design/muh army diversity, but we talk about something vital about every army roster. Rocket arty is like an at-gun or a mg, a basic tool you need in like 99% of games. And therefore every army should have stock access to it.
So replace scott with a adjusted calliope and swap an adjusted land mattress for bofors/comet or some shit. And there you have it. Now USF and UKF arent depended on the choice of one commander or their soviet ally.

True & 100% agree with you here. But I think I have higher chance of seeing coh3 than having default rocket arty for usf/ukf.

This idea is very nice to change 4v4 arty-festi meta. it definitely neeeds next patch. It is same idea for me to change walking stuka.

but we needs buff another option for Okw such as puma or luch.

The problem isnt the fast timing of the stuka. Its more about that neither USF nor UKF have stock rocket arty.

In almost all team games both USF and UKF take either their rocket artillery doctrines or conventional artillery doctrines tho.

Also, giving rocket artillery to factions with way superior infantry will create its own problems IMO.

From my personal experience, being top ~100 in 3v3 as OKW and Ost, I really find myself struggling if OKW teammates arent getting Stuka rushed.

Because of the nature of 3v3 maps allies really can overhelm OKW with support weapons. Igs are imo in my opinion are very clunky and un-reliable to use to count as a proper inderect fire unit unless spammed.

Because of the nature of 3v3 maps allies really can overhelm OKW with support weapons.

Idk man, I would agree the early stuka timing was kind of necessary in teamgames when maxim, 50cals and/or packhowitzers were still pretty OP.

But nowadays it would be justified imo to lock the stuka behind the schwerer panzer HQ. The power level (high accuracy and big onehit-kill radius on the rockets) of this unit on lane maps doesnt fit to its early timing at all and clearly is a leftover from low-income 2014 OKW design.


Buffed smoke from leigs is more than enough now to put a stop to MG spam