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Buff for 5 man grens

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Kurobane
11 May 2021, 21:35 PM
#121
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Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 17:35 PMButcher
Honestly haven't bothered using it in the latest iteration.

But isn't the design flawed to begin with? You get a guy with an StG (close to mid range) yet want to keep the Kar98k Grens at range. Wasn't really that cool on Volks to begin with... and those get more StGs.


Yeah its terrible. Another thing destroyed by the classic double nerf. Don't understand why they go through the effort to destroy something into the ground just to end up buffing it again later on.

The original upgrade if im not mistaken gave an extra man, a recieved accuracy buff, and more damage which is obvious that it was going to be too strong.

The 5th model plus maybe a slight reduction in reinforcement cost would have been enough.
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Jilet
11 May 2021, 21:40 PM
#122
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Posts: 556

Why would anyone want just a beefier Grenadier for meatshield while they can have Osttruppen which is cheaper and just better overall for being the meatshield.

Also, VSL should just be better -not overwhelmingly but in a way- than the LMG42 upgrade for the grens since that is the whole point of the commander, not anything else.

As I previously said, move the upgrade to 3CPs (which is the time most of the Allied Elites/LVs arrive) and give them their G43 back while increasing the upgrade cost to 80 munitions just like Panzerfusiliers so now player has to choose, do they want the early LMG42 powerspike or wait and try a better upgrade.
Grens are finally good.
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jagd wölfe
11 May 2021, 21:42 PM
#123
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Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post11 May 2021, 21:40 PMJilet
Why would anyone want just a beefier Grenadier for meatshield while they can have Osttruppen which is cheaper and just better overall for being the meatshield.

Also, VSL should just be better -not overwhelmingly but in a way- than the LMG42 upgrade for the grens since that is the whole point of the commander, not anything else.


Ironically enough it's also only in a commander without stuka or tiger.
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198119448887

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2021, 07:47 AMKatitof

They certainly hide from me.
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thedarkarmadillo
12 May 2021, 01:43 AM
#124
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post11 May 2021, 15:09 PMjagd wölfe

That's not how it works. Durability and dps go hand in hand, the lmg grenadiers losing 2 models means still having most its dps, while the dps of 4 men grenadiers drops drastically with 2 models lost. As the dps drops, the enemy retains much better dps, so your durability is is actually lower.

thats not how durability works. durability is the amount of punishment a squad can take, not how quickly fights end.
5 men mean more health, but also more targets, which spreads out damage, meaning less odds of a model being burst down. but additionally, how much pray tell dopes tthe lmg42 protect against mortars? snipers? tanks? mines?

side note, you are describing the lmg42 exactly for its purpose. centralized DPS to offset the small squad size. this approach was in contrast to the soviet, who instead of centralized dps had additional durability. outfight or outlast. dont expect both on a 240mp unit let alone one that starts with a snare....
#stalinwept
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Jilet
12 May 2021, 08:23 AM
#125
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

So, I ran a very primitive test to actually see the difference between LMG grens and VSL grens.

At 20 range, against Vet3 Double BAR riflemen, at Vet3, behind green cover.
I ran a total of 20 runs each.

My observation is,
The time difference between the VSL and standard LMG grens to get wiped is really small. There were even 4 cases where LMG Grens outlasted the VSL and the difference between the amount of manpower bleed both upgrades dealt was almost indifferent.

Seriously, I wonder if my cases were all the extremes or if I did something wrong ? I'd like to see some other persons tests but from my observations, the upgrade is just bad for a doctrinal upgrade that the commander is all about considering you are giving up on the long range DPS which will add more bleed to the enemy, you don't get the so called "insane survivability" and for short range, you have the PGrens anyways.
Grens are finally good.
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Mr Carmine
12 May 2021, 11:00 AM
#126
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2021, 08:23 AMJilet
So, I ran a very primitive test to actually see the difference between LMG grens and VSL grens.

At 20 range, against Vet3 Double BAR riflemen, at Vet3, behind green cover.
I ran a total of 20 runs each.

My observation is,
The time difference between the VSL and standard LMG grens to get wiped is really small. There were even 4 cases where LMG Grens outlasted the VSL and the difference between the amount of manpower bleed both upgrades dealt was almost indifferent.

Seriously, I wonder if my cases were all the extremes or if I did something wrong ? I'd like to see some other persons tests but from my observations, the upgrade is just bad for a doctrinal upgrade that the commander is all about considering you are giving up on the long range DPS which will add more bleed to the enemy, you don't get the so called "insane survivability" and for short range, you have the PGrens anyways.


I think testing is vs explosives tanks shells is smart. I think this was the intent of the chance, not inf combat with small arms.
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LMAO
12 May 2021, 15:59 PM
#127
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

Meh forget VSL its not worth it leave it to the top players and on whatever maps and situation they will be good even with its many cons especially when G43 gets buffed. Pick an upgrade who lose on all ranges or the chad stock upgrade LMG.
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mrgame2
13 May 2021, 09:24 AM
#128
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Posts: 1794

why cant we just remove the HT and repalce with command p4?
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Katitof
13 May 2021, 09:38 AM
#129
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2021, 09:24 AMmrgame2
why cant we just remove the HT and repalce with command p4?

Because its a great vehicle in the spirit of the doctrine and it provides reinforcement and suppression?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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ZeroZeroNi
13 May 2021, 17:17 PM
#130
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2021, 09:24 AMmrgame2
why cant we just remove the HT and repalce with command p4?

Have you seen what mp40 strom can do in one of these things. If you did, you'd have your answer.
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ZeroZeroNi
13 May 2021, 17:18 PM
#131
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Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2021, 09:38 AMKatitof

Because its a great vehicle in the spirit of the doctrine and it provides reinforcement and suppression?

Isn't reinforcement a vet 1 ability though???
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Katitof
13 May 2021, 21:51 PM
#132
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2021, 17:18 PMZeroZeroNi

Isn't reinforcement a vet 1 ability though???

Shared vet.
It gets to that in no time.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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ZeroZeroNi
14 May 2021, 05:19 AM
#133
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2021, 21:51 PMKatitof

Shared vet.
It gets to that in no time.

Isn't it better just to say it's frontline support mainly with the bonus of reinforcement.
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