I'd call not being able to move a pretty large drawback.
Not sure if someone mentioned it, but what's your opinion on Ele Hulldown countering Pounder emplacement.
Hull Down Panther new best TD?
14 Apr 2021, 17:03 PM
#41
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Not sure if someone mentioned it, but what's your opinion on Ele Hulldown countering Pounder emplacement.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
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Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
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And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
14 Apr 2021, 17:07 PM
#42
Posts: 1794
i only use hull down late game when we are counting down vp....
hull down bonus looks good in theory, but ATG and 60TD are all you need to force it away.
hull down bonus looks good in theory, but ATG and 60TD are all you need to force it away.
14 Apr 2021, 17:22 PM
#43
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Depends on the time it takes to hull down, de-hull (or w/e the correct English word is)
That's rather irrelevant. The point is that Hull Down makes your tanks immobile in a game that is dominated by manoeuvre warfare. You're going to lose the initiative and you're going to be dependant on your enemy if you dig in all your tanks. Which can work well often enough if your opponents charge headstrong into your lines, but if your opponents are good they'll just go elsewhere and overrun some other part of the map or wait until they have offmaps available.
Not sure if someone mentioned it, but what's your opinion on Ele Hulldown countering Pounder emplacement.
It has always been able to do that? I don't think anything will change in that regard. Setting up your Elefant far behind your lines to safely reach the 17 pounder at its HD max range was easy enough before. The requiring infantry part was only too clumsy for things like Panthers that needed to be dug in often and at the front.
14 Apr 2021, 17:53 PM
#44
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
It has always been able to do that? I don't think anything will change in that regard. Setting up your Elefant far behind your lines to safely reach the 17 pounder at its HD max range was easy enough before. The requiring infantry part was only too clumsy for things like Panthers that needed to be dug in often and at the front.
Status quo hasn't stop us from changing things if they are deemed worth of change.
I mention this cause i remember people complaining about JT outranging Pounder emplacement due to how hitbox works (even though both had same range).
At some point after more Jaeger armor nerfs, i expect people to switch towards Fortified armor.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
14 Apr 2021, 17:57 PM
#45
Posts: 1515
That's rather irrelevant. The point is that Hull Down makes your tanks immobile in a game that is dominated by manoeuvre warfare. You're going to lose the initiative and you're going to be dependant on your enemy if you dig in all your tanks. Which can work well often enough if your opponents charge headstrong into your lines, but if your opponents are good they'll just go elsewhere and overrun some other part of the map or wait until they have offmaps available.
Tell me more about maneuverability on Port Of Hamburger or Redshit express or Ettelturd station or Angrymunde. Please, do share your visions on it.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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14 Apr 2021, 18:35 PM
#46
Posts: 919
I'd call not being able to move a pretty large drawback.
Its clearly a drawback. The only problem is, if this really becomes meta it wil promote artillery spam since artillery is the perfect counter versus immobile units. 3v3/4vs4 has already too much artillery war, anything that promotes artillery is a bad move for the game. Destroying howitzers was already really hampered by removing al lot of the 100% howitzer destroy abilities from various commanders instead of just moving them to other commanders.
14 Apr 2021, 19:21 PM
#47
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
On the issue of hulled down ele countering 17 pounder, quoting certain scholar: It was hidden OP and needs to be dealt with now because it is problematic on that unit.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
15 Apr 2021, 06:09 AM
#48
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
That's rather irrelevant. The point is that Hull Down makes your tanks immobile in a game that is dominated by manoeuvre warfare. You're going to lose the initiative and you're going to be dependant on your enemy if you dig in all your tanks. Which can work well often enough if your opponents charge headstrong into your lines, but if your opponents are good they'll just go elsewhere and overrun some other part of the map or wait until they have offmaps available.
Because we all know you can only hulldown all your tanks together or none. Beside thta those comments remember me some other made long time ago to defend brit simcity.
15 Apr 2021, 06:32 AM
#49
Posts: 163
Removing the elefant ability to hulldown in that commander will make it even more not appealing than Jaegar Armor so no. It's no brainer but at gun/s works best vs hulldown panthers just don't get them clumped up and get indirect fired.
15 Apr 2021, 06:37 AM
#50
Posts: 366
I have used hull down a few times and I am worried about its power on lane type maps.
Not needing infantry to hull down vehicles is a huge buff and prevents a bug from happening (which I'm sure nobody knew about). This was needed and will see use in the future even if it takes some time for the bonuses to kick in. It's for defence after all.
But there is is no tear down time at all. If you see danger coming, you can immediately exit hull down and move. This largely mitigates its disadvantage of being stationary.
Likewise if it did have a tear down, you would probably end up like the kv2 siege mode on the heavier vehicles.
Edit: for those who dont know, its 25% dr not 25% armor.
Not needing infantry to hull down vehicles is a huge buff and prevents a bug from happening (which I'm sure nobody knew about). This was needed and will see use in the future even if it takes some time for the bonuses to kick in. It's for defence after all.
But there is is no tear down time at all. If you see danger coming, you can immediately exit hull down and move. This largely mitigates its disadvantage of being stationary.
Likewise if it did have a tear down, you would probably end up like the kv2 siege mode on the heavier vehicles.
Edit: for those who dont know, its 25% dr not 25% armor.
15 Apr 2021, 06:42 AM
#51
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Realistically speaking, while it sounds crazy in reality it might not be.
Like, if there is elephant on the field, even if it has 80 or so range with hull down, you still wont go with your tanks to the place where elephant is located to begin with.
Panther is indeed strong with hull down, but again AT guns will counter it, since it has no AI capabilities. Or advise given to deal with Allies TD walling: dont use tanks against TDs is not applyable here?
And also, main problem is narrow shitty maps should be looked at in the first place, because half of the OP stuff comes from the bad map desing.
Like, if there is elephant on the field, even if it has 80 or so range with hull down, you still wont go with your tanks to the place where elephant is located to begin with.
Panther is indeed strong with hull down, but again AT guns will counter it, since it has no AI capabilities. Or advise given to deal with Allies TD walling: dont use tanks against TDs is not applyable here?
And also, main problem is narrow shitty maps should be looked at in the first place, because half of the OP stuff comes from the bad map desing.
15 Apr 2021, 06:45 AM
#52
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Removing the elefant ability to hulldown in that commander will make it even more not appealing than Jaegar Armor so no. It's no brainer but at gun/s works best vs hulldown panthers just don't get them clumped up and get indirect fired.
Not if we remove ele from jeager armor and replace it with HEAT rounds.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
15 Apr 2021, 07:12 AM
#53
Posts: 356
On the issue of hulled down ele countering 17 pounder, quoting certain scholar: It was hidden OP and needs to be dealt with now because it is problematic on that unit.
To turn your favorite argument against you: elephant is more expensive than 17 pounder so of course it should win.
15 Apr 2021, 07:28 AM
#54
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
To turn your favorite argument against you: elephant is more expensive than 17 pounder so of course it should win.
You missed the part, where context is about units of exact same role.
While 17 pounder does indeed destroys tanks, it is not a tank destroyer.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
15 Apr 2021, 07:36 AM
#55
Posts: 356
You missed the part, where context is about units of exact same role.
While 17 pounder does indeed destroys tanks, it is not a tank destroyer.
Still cheaper than ele.
Bazooka teams aren't tank destroyers either. Ought they have 90 range?
15 Apr 2021, 07:45 AM
#56
Posts: 1515
Still cheaper than ele.
Bazooka teams aren't tank destroyers either. Ought they have 90 range?
Are you having a seizure or something. What are you comparing?
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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15 Apr 2021, 08:20 AM
#58
Posts: 117
And you're still wrong and confused.
Jimmies rustled, looking good boss.
15 Apr 2021, 08:30 AM
#59
Posts: 4928
Hull Down Panther makes me realize I miss the Pantherturm from CoH1. And the Mortar Bunker. Those were fun on custom maps.
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15 Apr 2021, 08:45 AM
#60
Posts: 356
And you're still wrong and confused.
So I take it that you can't actually explain why a cheaper unit should defeat a more expensive unit then?
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