Late game performances of Volksgrenadiers and veterancy

Just in case you don't know it

Make sure to always drop smoke between 2 squads when you switch one's allegiance, otherwise the targeting gets screwed up and you get weird results.

I switch their owner first then smoke regen their hp to full. Does that fuck uo the test.

Vet 4 and Vet 5 bonuses aren't related to durability or dps of the unit, they are remnants from before OKW could easily backtech into Med HQ, and don't fit a mainline unit. Such bonuses could be changed into a cooldown/accuracy and RA boosts to help the unit

OKW Vet 5 had offensive bonuses removed from it awhile ago.

Wouldnt it be better to test this at all ranges rather than just long range (which I believe volks are not best at)?

Volksgrenadiers are better at long range than Conscripts.

B: Soviets should receive an "Elite" infantry unit nondoctrinally. Either Penals should be able to "Refit" into some type of "Redeemed" unit, or some variant of Guards should be available nondoctrinally. Mobilise Reserves doesnt need changes, I don't think, certainly not a nerf.

SMG armed Assault Squad please, or Frontoviki Squad armed with SVT Rifles.

SMG armed Assault Squad please

This. But I think we're asking for too much at this stage in Company of Heroes' 2 lifespan.

They could use more RA so they could tank better for obers

Volksgrenadiers late game performances seem to be extremely underwhelming.

Then supplement them with obers. OKW's other mainline inf.

Cons and penals are only sov line inf, both lose badly to obers. Sov needs cons to beat out volks to have any presence in inf lategame.

They could use more RA so they could tank better for obers

This along with self heal to vet 3 or 4, and volks imo should be fine at their job.

Also whatever happened to the very high amount of pressure okw can bring on right out of the gate? This puzzles me a bit.

Then supplement them with obers. OKW's other mainline inf.

Cons and penals are only sov line inf, both lose badly to obers. Sov needs cons to beat out volks to have any presence in inf lategame.

Then volks should be cheaper to reinforce in late game?

Then volks should be cheaper to reinforce in late game?

No they shouldn't, just stop blobbing

No they shouldn't, just stop blobbing

Nah they should, vet 3 cons are just cheaper and better

Nah they should, vet 3 cons are just cheaper and better

Vet3 cons don't have obersoldaten equivalent behind them in late game, its all on them.

Vet3 cons don't have obersoldaten equivalent behind them in late game, its all on them.

No, it's not, they have vehicles, including a cheap AI tank

No, it's not, they have vehicles, including a cheap AI tank

In that case, there is nothing wrong with volks.
They have vehicles behind them in late game that also happen to beat soviet vehicles, JP4 deals with SU-85, P4 and panther with everything else.

And now we need to nerf volks because they are too oppressive in late game vs cons.

In that case, there is nothing wrong with volks.
They have vehicles behind them in late game that also happen to beat soviet vehicles, JP4 deals with SU-85, P4 and panther with everything else.

And now we need to nerf volks because they are too oppressive in late game vs cons.

Ah yes sure the 140 fuel tank that is worse against infantry
Katitof - the god of asspulls

I dont see why STG volks shouldn't lose on long range versus rifle-only conscripts, because cons with PPSh very likely lose versus non-upgraded volks on long range as well.

If you want to snipe the enemy from far away, then use jaeger, obersoldaten, panzerfusilier, G43 panzergrenadiers, G43 grenadiers, etc

I dont see why STG volks shouldn't lose on long range versus rifle-only conscripts

STG volks lose at any range against conscripts
STGs aren't a long range downgrade

Vet3 cons don't have obersoldaten equivalent behind them in late game, its all on them.

Stop preaching this garbage in every thread about OKW inf perfomance. If its not 3v3 or 4v4 nubfest, OKW at best will have 2 maybe 3 obersoldaten squads, 9 pop-cap each. So 18 pop-cap for 2 squads, 27 for 3 squads.

Now its time for some non-tunnel vision thinking. Lets say we have 2 inf armies, OKW and Soviets in late game.
What OKW will have 4 StG volks squads, 2 Obersoldaten squads, SP in the back reparing shit. Lets not bring them, because they are shit in late game anyway and being focused fire in seconds or maybe even they have schrek.
Sov having 4 cons with reserves + 2 shocks\guards, 2 combat engis. They will be most likely fighting aswell, but lets imagine they are not.

Both armies more or less have equal pop-cap used.

Cons will beat the shit out of volks, shocks and guards will do it even better, obersoldaten will beat cons and depending on the possitioning will have equal ground with guards\shocks.

Whats wrong in this picture? That the Volks will lose litteraly every single 1v1 engagement that can happen on the map, unless they have supperior cover or enemy squad is damaged (ofcouse if your volks are full HP awell).

And now try to undestand that having mainline, that requare constant baby sitting by elite inf or requare constant number advantage leads to problems.

Stop preaching this garbage in every thread about OKW inf perfomance. If its not 3v3 or 4v4 nubfest, OKW at best will have 2 maybe 3 obersoldaten squads, 9 pop-cap each. So 18 pop-cap for 2 squads, 27 for 3 squads.

Now its time for some non-tunnel vision thinking. Lets say we have 2 inf armies, OKW and Soviets in late game.
What OKW will have 4 StG volks squads, 2 Obersoldaten squads, SP in the back reparing shit. Lets not bring them, because they are shit in late game anyway and being focused fire in seconds or maybe even they have schrek.
Sov having 4 cons with reserves + 2 shocks\guards, 2 combat engis. They will be most likely fighting aswell, but lets imagine they are not.

Both armies more or less have equal pop-cap used.

Cons will beat the shit out of volks, shocks and guards will do it even better, obersoldaten will beat cons and depending on the possitioning will have equal ground with guards\shocks.

Whats wrong in this picture? That the Volks will lose litteraly every single 1v1 engagement that can happen on the map, unless they have supperior cover or enemy squad is damaged (ofcouse if your volks are full HP awell).

And now try to undestand that having mainline, that requare constant baby sitting by elite inf or requare constant number advantage leads to problems.

Git gud.
All I have to say to you.

You're making excuses with APM pros are jealous of.

I am all for a late-game volksgren buff if soviet penals get access to doctrinal LMG upgrades


Why? it would be funny

Git gud.
All I have to say to you.

You're making excuses with APM pros are jealous of.

Also, does this mean that penal start is viable in 1v1 and all who says otherwise just need to git gud?

Ye, does this means that penal start is viable in 1v1 and all who says otherwise just need to git gud?

No, it means a unit that is not broken in context of the whole army does not need to be fixed and comparing it to a completely different unit with completely different upgrades at completely different timing with completely different army behind it couldn't be any less relevant to that first units performance in context of its own army and support it gets.

No idea why are you pulling penals out of your arse right now, they have their own problems and clearly were not pulling up their weight for the cost once people actually, guess what-have learned to play against them and found out they aren't as OP as certain ultra-vocal forum member made them out to be.

In comparison to that, I can assure you with utmost certainty that people do know how to play vs volks for years, especially now that they have cost that matches their oppressiveness in early game against these very same cons you compare them to.