Commander Update Beta 2021 - General Feedback

Centaur is not "much tougher" than an ostwind. I think both vehicles are perfect from a health/armor standpoint right now. There were times were the ostwind was made of glass, we dont live in that timeframe anymore.

You are simply wrong.

Ostwind's armor/health has not changed in years and even when they where changed the differences where minor.

It has PPSH Shock Troops. I don't think there's anything to suggest a Shock Army had more SMGs than other armies. The main point of a Shock Army was to be fully equipped by itself for attacking enemy armies and breakthrough, by reinforcing them with more armored and artillery assets than other armies. The new line-up represents that.

From a gameplay perspective having SMG mainlines in the same commander that already has an SMG elite is simply redundant. AVD is there now as a useful tool, but mostly to balance out the strong combo of premium medium + elite infantry + strong offmap.

Sander any chance to Return the IL2 loiter to any doc. There is only 1 doc with that ability now. Where's OST have 3 commanders with JU87 loiter. It would also be pretty good to remove loiters from OST as well.

Advanced Warfare might get the loiter instead of the strafe, seeing how the strafe got moved to 3 other commanders.

Advanced Warfare might get the loiter instead of the strafe, seeing how the strafe got moved to 3 other commanders.

Move it partisans.

Imo Tank traps need to be looked at.

Since most of these are doctrinal abilities imo it time to make redesign so they actually work as tank traps and not cover:
1) Increase build time so they are not spam able they should certainly take longer than reinforce wire

2) Reduce cover type to yellow (or non). They should not be used as cover or force player not to use them to deny enemy cover

3) Reduce the effectiveness of ballistic weapon against them, this can include smaller target size or HP or target tables.

4) Allow special "counters" like certain units can not dismantle them, extra damage from demolition explosives....

In sort Centaur is 23% probable to be penetrate by recon AT
and
Around x1/2-x1/3 less chance to be penetrate by light Tank.

It will also be penetrate easier by medium tanks

In other words, the armor advantage Centaur has, does matter for a variety of weapons.

It makes no sense to echo what I said again and again. I named the only one and a half matchups were it matters at all, you are just ignoring that by always calling ot a "variety" of weapons, while not proofing that these matchups are of any importance in a normal game. We are arguing in a circle, while having completely different views. So lets end it here. Thx.

Is anything being done about the SPG situation? I mean it's all good and well to remove CB from LEFH (Assuming you even get that far in games ) but you're still getting buried alive by all the shells in 3v3+. The power of CB was mentioned by some (including yours truly) as existing because of the SPG situation but now that it's gone, it is likely that it'll get worse imho. The regular barrage fire simply won't cut it, in simulations or field experience. I've tried two LEFHs vs one SPG with sight range at 180+ range and most of the time it lives iirc. Maybe more often, not thoroughly tested it.

Is it considered a situation not fixable in the scope of this commander patch or considered pretty much balanced/too difficult to rebalance or....?

The flare nerf/rework to RA definitely should help though idk about USF Infantry Commander and its Priests.

It makes no sense to echo what I said again and again. I named the only one and a half matchups were it matters at all, you are just ignoring that by always calling ot a "variety" of weapons, while not proofing that these matchups are of any importance in a normal game. We are arguing in a circle, while having completely different views. So lets end it here. Thx.

The armor difference simply does not affect dedicated AT weapons like ATG, but has an affect in many other weapons that are used in game.

Centaur is simply more durable than Ostwind and if Owstind was to get an increase in armor it would perform better vs light tanks, an area where Ostheer have issues.

You are welcomed.

Players think cb is too brainded and requires no micro at all and by that logic should've also made mortars can't autofire. The only way to kill spg without cb is to dive with pumas or a tank because of their armored ass or waste a ton of munitions and hope they aren't paying attention and just move. It is also worse if you're opponent had a brain and spare some micro by just chilling in his base after firing/ moving when close to off cooldown.

Players think cb is too brainded and requires no micro at all and by that logic should've also made mortars can't autofire. The only way to kill spg without cb is to dive with pumas or a tank because of their armored ass or waste a ton of munitions and hope they aren't paying attention and just move. It is also worse if you're opponent had a brain and spare some micro by just chilling in his base after firing/ moving when close to off cooldown.

I completely agree with this. I don't think it's fair at all that in order to counter SPGs I need to play the game. What if they defend them? Where's the fun in that? I need to be able to click 1 button and have the game counter them for me with no effort at all and no counterplay at all. Fix it LELIC.

Advanced Warfare might get the loiter instead of the strafe, seeing how the strafe got moved to 3 other commanders.

ok, sounds good but won't it be too much like armored assault then??? only difference being ppsh vs is2.

Sometimes relief Infantry doesn't work. I lost about 10 models and didn't get an osttruppen squad.

Sometimes relief Infantry doesn't work. I lost about 10 models and didn't get an osttruppen squad.

So it's broken? Imagine my shock.

But yeah they should keep attempting to fix it like 3 or 4 times at the very least, like the Sturmtiger.

So it's broken? Imagine my shock.

But yeah they should keep attempting to fix it like 3 or 4 times at the very least, like the Sturmtiger.

so that would imply it works finally?

so that would imply it works finally?

No it's broken in the sense that it's literally broken and sometimes doesn't work as intended.

Not that it's OP as many people incorrectly use the term.

Sometimes relief Infantry doesn't work. I lost about 10 models and didn't get an osttruppen squad.

So it's broken? Imagine my shock.

But yeah they should keep attempting to fix it like 3 or 4 times at the very least, like the Sturmtiger.

The design is weird by itself, I never felt the need to reinforce faster with Ostheer squads, it's actually the faction which, imo, needs it the least, and aside from rushing an Ostwind I can't see a big benefit in build time decrease at 5 CP

Also as an active ability it feels awkward. As a passive it would probably be op. I think it would work much better as a version of Osttruppen Reserves where you call in two Lmg Ostruppen to supplement your Grenadiers for 400 mp and 120 munitions

This avoids the issue of putting Osttruppen in too powerful commanders like Lightning War and new Festung support since you can't use them from the start

The design is weird by itself, I never felt the need to reinforce faster with Ostheer squads, it's actually the faction which, imo, needs it the least, and aside from rushing an Ostwind I can't see a big benefit in build time decrease at 5 CP

Also as an active ability it feels awkward. As a passive it would probably be op. I think it would work much better as a version of Osttruppen Reserves where you call in two Lmg Ostruppen to supplement your Grenadiers for 400 mp and 120 munitions

This avoids the issue of putting Osttruppen in too powerful commanders like Lightning War and new Festung support since you can't use them from the start

A passive, you mean like Soviet industry was providing more fuel at a decreased manpower rate?

I mean I guess that could work somewhat, you get a decreased resource rate of maybe either manpower or fuel and in return you get an Osttruppen squad every 5 or 10 minutes or something like that.

Lol imagine just flooding the field with Osttruppen.

Alternatively it could be just Osttruppen support weapons or something, as in an MG34/42, the GrW 34 mortar and Pak 40 AT gun being manned by Osttruppen instead which means they'd be cheaper but also act like glass cannons basically since they would evaporate if out of cover.

But in general I feel like just straight up replacing Relief Infantry with an Osttruppen squad would be the quickest and easiet, not to mention simplest route to go since it obvious will never work "as intended" so to speak and is instead better to just replace it rather than try to fix and rework it for an x amount of times like the Sturmtiger. That is in my opinion at least since the ability goes against the game's design and philosophy of unit preservation in the first place.

No it's broken in the sense that it's literally broken and sometimes doesn't work as intended.

Not that it's OP as many people incorrectly use the term.

hmm, iirc there was an issue with crawlers not correctly counting as casualties with the live version or relief inf. there was a mod by olekman that fixed this but that probably didn't get ported over to the current rework.

It has PPSH Shock Troops. I don't think there's anything to suggest a Shock Army had more SMGs than other armies. The main point of a Shock Army was to be fully equipped by itself for attacking enemy armies and breakthrough, by reinforcing them with more armored and artillery assets than other armies. The new line-up represents that.

And one of the ways they did this was to equip entire squads, platoons, or even companies with submachine guns. I don't have a source anymore but I'm pretty sure the main place I got it from is a 12 hour long Russian documentary series (Soviet Storm, World War 2 in the East) and I have no idea which episode it was in (Maybe the Stalingrad one?). Wish I could just look up the TO&E online but unfortunately it's never that easy.

From a gameplay perspective having SMG mainlines in the same commander that already has an SMG elite is simply redundant. AVD is there now as a useful tool, but mostly to balance out the strong combo of premium medium + elite infantry + strong offmap.

I'd argue that Shock Army had a synergy between Conscripts and Shock Troops that couldn't be found anywhere else, the SMG Mainlines could attack at close range alongside SMG Elites whilst dealing effective damage. You can still do that with regular Conscripts, but they won't provide any benefit other than continuously merging with the Shock Troops for damage output.

Buff every faction's core infantry but UKF. I want to see it burn to the ground.