10,5 cm leFH 18 and 152mm ML-20

Yeah I was wrong. Oh well. The idea of AT strafe destroying ML-20 was errr....interesting. ML-20 is an okayish arty piece imho but OTOH it does struggle hugely vs LEFH but no one wants to go back to the days of constantly raining arty shells either.

In any case, CB should not be removed from LEFH without factoring in the SPG situation which ignores or even counters LEFHs.

CB only exist for 1 reason, mobile howys, if priest and sexton did not exist CD would not exist

CB only exist for 1 reason, mobile howys, if priest and sexton did not exist CD would not exist

Pretty much this. If CB on the LeFh gets touched, then all SPGs need to be looked at. Because they are straight up better than any stationary howie. Thus they would be probably neutered in terms of range.

Only UKF Royal Arty and USF Infantry commanders have the SPGs, so they can be tweaked in the coming update. I suggest just change their FoW accuracy mod from 1.25 to 1.75 and maybe increase max dispersion. That will prevent consistent howitzer kills, especially with how little damage the Sexton does per shot. I haven't messed with the priest in a long while.

Best I can tell, the SPGs are designed to break Axis Sim City with their low FoW mod and pretty bad AI shells. Buildings are big, so more dispersion is fine and Inf has a consistent ant-howi off-map already, with Ro.Arti close behind (concentrate barrage should be swapped for precision, inconsistent off-maps are just annoying)

Pretty much this. If CB on the LeFh gets touched, then all SPGs need to be looked at. Because they are straight up better than any stationary howie. Thus they would be probably neutered in terms of range.

Mobile is already neutered in terms of range. A Sexton has 135, Priest 180, and LEFH 250 range. When they reach Vet 3, those ranges go up by 33%. On most 4v4 maps the LEFH can be built where mobile can't hit it. On 2v2, the Priest often can hit a LEFH but it is often firing at max range and it ends up being a waste of time.

CB only exist for 1 reason, mobile howys, if priest and sexton did not exist CD would not exist

I don't know why people are still getting this wrong, but I'll try to explain this again. Mobile arties will ALWAYS, or at least in a much better chance, lose to stationary arties in a direct arty vs. arty contest(presuming FoW is on). And here is why:
1. Mobile arties fire fewer shots. In a contest where only RNG matters, fire more shots always mean a better chance to hit.
2. Mobile arties have bigger sizes, thus make it easier to get hit. Stationary arties are for sure very easy to get decrewed. But destroying the battery itself is really hard and mostly requires direct shots.
3. Mobile arties have a shorter range. This means using mobile arties to counter stationary arties is quite hard on big maps and makes mobile arties usually fire at max range, leading to even bigger scatter.

CB is there to counter all arties that are staying stationary. The longer the arties stay at the firing zone, the better the CB will perform. Since most of the Mobile arties fire fewer shots which leads to a shorter barrage window, CB does not benefit from it.

Mobile is already neutered in terms of range. A Sexton has 135, Priest 180, and LEFH 250 range. When they reach Vet 3, those ranges go up by 33%. On most 4v4 maps the LEFH can be built where mobile can't hit it. On 2v2, the Priest often can hit a LEFH but it is often firing at max range and it ends up being a waste of time.

Huh didnt know the exact numbers, fair enough. I retract my previous statement

I think i myself would pick the b4 anyday over the ml-20

However the way i use the b4 is different from the ml-20

i mainly use the b4 as a close-midrange 'shotgun' howi. Just camp vp's with it, wait for a blob to push in, or bomb overextended okw t4's. The b4 also excel's imo more on 1v1/2v2 mapsize then 3v3/4v4 because u don't need much range to cover the relativly smaller maps. So u will experience less scatter. If u shoot relativly close, while having vision and keep in mind that the b4 tends to overshoot (if it scatters out of the circle so u 'under aim' the target) u can get kinda reliable model kills or even wipes. Now if u add 2 or more b4's u can reduce the rng factor on this distance significantly. all u need is one or 2 shots and u won’t need more because after that the enemy would start dodging a barrage from like for example a lefh or ml20 anyway. B4 maybe RNG dependend, but it has a better fire rate then the ml20 i'd say. U make one shot and then 30 sec later uready again, ml20 will prob still be busy with its barrage+cooldown at that time..

The ml-20 on the other hand only has a slow longer duration baragge, with a ton of scatter that, IF u wont hit anything with like in 1-3 shots will be dodged at any range. The only advantage the ml20 has over the b4 imo is that it is nice to bombard bases and okw structures. (the latter can even be done to some extent with the b4 but rng will be rough on bigger maps). Sadly I feel that the scatter on the ml-20 is not good enough that u can be on par with the lefh and counter bomb it reliably. And how can a bit more damage per shot help if u cant hit a target . Also the ml-20 cant compete imo with the b4 at the range where the b4 excels (close-mid). But at the same time the ml-20 is not that much more reliable on long-max range then the b4, I mean if your lucky your b4 will hit too, and when it does it will hit waaaaay harder. The ml-20 should be more consistent then the b4 at this greater distance and a clear winner. For me it doesn’t feel like that at the moment.

If the ml20 scatter can be reduced so that its a clear winner over the b4 at distance, i think it can have its place in the sovejet arty line up. OFC dont over do it like with all things

I stopped using the ML20 after I tried using 3 of them vs 1 ost bunker on redball at medium (?) range.

Didn't even half health it.

I just always pick a commander that can counter LeFH if I see any sign of them in the loading screen.

Mobile is already neutered in terms of range. A Sexton has 135, Priest 180, and LEFH 250 range. When they reach Vet 3, those ranges go up by 33%. On most 4v4 maps the LEFH can be built where mobile can't hit it. On 2v2, the Priest often can hit a LEFH but it is often firing at max range and it ends up being a waste of time.

sexton is 160 ,135 was like 2 years ago and that has nothing to do with the ability to move, the mobile arty will always have the initiate and first shoot cause u will never know where they are before they shoot, and they can just move if they are targeted, CB exists to punish fire and forget player or to actually have a chance of dealing some damage to them as it fires when the howy is about to fire, after all u can just move a priest away from the barrage zone

I don't know why people are still getting this wrong, but I'll try to explain this again. Mobile arties will ALWAYS, or at least in a much better chance, lose to stationary arties in a direct arty vs. arty contest(presuming FoW is on). And here is why:
1. Mobile arties fire fewer shots. In a contest where only RNG matters, fire more shots always mean a better chance to hit.
2. Mobile arties have bigger sizes, thus make it easier to get hit. Stationary arties are for sure very easy to get decrewed. But destroying the battery itself is really hard and mostly requires direct shots.
3. Mobile arties have a shorter range. This means using mobile arties to counter stationary arties is quite hard on big maps and makes mobile arties usually fire at max range, leading to even bigger scatter.

CB is there to counter all arties that are staying stationary. The longer the arties stay at the firing zone, the better the CB will perform. Since most of the Mobile arties fire fewer shots which leads to a shorter barrage window, CB does not benefit from it.

It makes no sense as u already know where it is and u can just manually barrage it, and the longer u stay the better it is works for ALL arty not just CB, that's why i said sexton and priest which both can easily destroy a lefh with 1 barrage unlike missile arty which will decrew it but require more pounding to destroy it generally

honestly speaking i would not mind if it only targeted those units with CB

also it would be very help full if the 0 sec cooldown stuck bug on the ml20 could be fixed. i just had a game where i spammed 3 of them for the lulz and then it still happend


this makes it also supper annoying to play with

It makes no sense as u already know where it is and u can just manually barrage it, and the longer u stay the better it is works for ALL arty not just CB, that's why i said sexton and priest which both can easily destroy a lefh with 1 barrage unlike missile arty which will decrew it but require more pounding to destroy it generally

honestly speaking i would not mind if it only targeted those units with CB

Okay, let me try to explain these a bit deeper.
NO ONE would know where the arties are regardless of their mobility unless they themselves got a hit. Yes, the mobile arties can relocate themselves but not when they are barraging. And that is why they cost more fuel and MP to build one. Their number of shots fired, and max fire distance has already decreased to compensate for their mobility advantage. Also, NO ONE can destroy a full health battery with only one shot and can hardly do so with one barrage. The Priest will need two DIRECT hits and probably three for the Sexton. Good luck achieving those goals when firing at max range with FoW.
CB will only target where the arties do their barrage. If a mobile arty opened fire at location A but retreated to location B, CB will still fire at location A. Again, CB is good not because it can counter mobile arties. It is good and somewhat OP because it fires with more damage per shot(200 instead of 180 or 160, I can't remember), less overall scatter multiplier, and even ignoring FoW debuff(that I not sure if there was). I personally do not care if it was a one-click-and-done ability.

200 instead of 160 damage, and FoW multiplier of 1.25 instead of 1.75. With half cooldown between barrages vs normal barrage.

Okay, let me try to explain these a bit deeper.
NO ONE would know where the arties are regardless of their mobility unless they themselves got a hit. Yes, the mobile arties can relocate themselves but not when they are barraging. And that is why they cost more fuel and MP to build one. Their number of shots fired, and max fire distance has already decreased to compensate for their mobility advantage. Also, NO ONE can destroy a full health battery with only one shot and can hardly do so with one barrage. The Priest will need two DIRECT hits and probably three for the Sexton. Good luck achieving those goals when firing at max range with FoW.
CB will only target where the arties do their barrage. If a mobile arty opened fire at location A but retreated to location B, CB will still fire at location A. Again, CB is good not because it can counter mobile arties. It is good and somewhat OP because it fires with more damage per shot(200 instead of 180 or 160, I can't remember), less overall scatter multiplier, and even ignoring FoW debuff(that I not sure if there was). I personally do not care if it was a one-click-and-done ability.

1 both unit cost fuel and mp 2 1 shoot can already decrew it 3 i know how CB works if u read what i said, it used to deter fire and forget for mobile howy, CB basically makes a full barrage risky so they get 1 shoot in and have to move

1 both unit cost fuel and mp 2 1 shoot can already decrew it 3 i know how CB works if u read what i said, it used to deter fire and forget for mobile howy, CB basically makes a full barrage risky so they get 1 shoot in and have to move

1. Read my post. "And that is why they cost more fuel and MP to build one."
2. Read my post. "Also, NO ONE can destroy a full health battery with only one shot and can hardly do so with one barrage." Decrew an arty is meanless since it only cost a few dozens MP to crew it back.
3. Also, read my post. "It is good and somewhat OP because it fires with more damage per shot(200 instead of 180 or 160, I can't remember), less overall scatter multiplier, and even ignoring FoW debuff(that I not sure if there was)." AND, "I personally do not care if it was a one-click-and-done ability." which means I agree it should be able to deter the firing arties, but not with extra DPS.

Extra DPS is probably a relic of the changes made to arty

sexton is 160 ,135 was like 2 years ago and that has nothing to do with the ability to move, the mobile arty will always have the initiate and first shoot cause u will never know where they are before they shoot, and they can just move if they are targeted, CB exists to punish fire and forget player or to actually have a chance of dealing some damage to them as it fires when the howy is about to fire, after all u can just move a priest away from the barrage zone

I checked this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5z6szCfhmAAnDprmgwLzc-viZg4HPhKZshNLErvnck/edit#gid=1638665511

before posting. It seems the most up-to-date. Also, even if it is 160, it's still not long enough to use against a LEFH on most maps. You're just theory-crafting on why mobile is better. Nobody uses mobile arty to counter on-map.

Also, CB is as bad of a fire-and-forget utility as any other ability in the game. It's probably the worst as it can deal damage all over the map.