10,5 cm leFH 18 and 152mm ML-20

first of all. this is my second forum post, so please be easy on me



what I want to address is how effective and rewarding the LeFH especially the counter barrage while soviet ML-20 left untouched for years..

I understand how ML-20 deal more damage vanilla but is it really worth it when your main target is infantry? while the barrage cooldown is significantly longer than LeFH, which can rack up to 30-sec cooldown barrage and same damage as ML-20 easily with ONLY vet 1 and at that point you can just toggle counter barrage on all the time and you magically gain vets oh, and they have way better vets too with OKW, and ISU-152 commander nerf only make it worst because now you have no other option to deal with them other than charge at them and hopefully destroy the gun because how useless the new IL-2 strafe really is. while on the ostheer side Stuka AT cannon can still deal pretty decent damage to artillery pieces.

If any balance team see this, I have a suggestion for buffing the ML-20
just add direct fire at vet 1 (CoH2 just like CoH2 bulletin said "any guns that can could engage enemy tanks became a de facto anti tank guns) and increase the number of shells at later vets

I mean why would you use the virgin ml-20 when you can have the chad b4?

I mean why would you use the virgin ml-20 when you can have the chad b4?

reliability, B4 is very RNG dependent

Yes but actually you better of just with katyusha. I only use Ml-20 when there is leFH on the field, few rare cases vs okw and not building Mechanized Armor Kampaneya for some reason. B4 actually is viable despite its rng dependency, I've seen and meet a few high level guys who play in 2v2 or more that uses it. It also get more accurate the close its target, I saw a kt get easily blown up trying to kill it.

Why do you need ML-20, when in my opinion it is absolutely bad. You have Katyusha.

ISU-152 commander nerf only make it worst

It's only a problem if you choose the ISU commnader. There are several other commanders that gives you direct strikes. I think the balance team made it very clear the reason for that change You can't have a perfect commander that deals with everything. And Remember the commanders that LeFH(ost) belongs too aren't as powerful as the ones that ML-20(though that's no reason for ML20 to be shit though) belongs. GRCA is a very strong commander that everyone has access.

It's only a problem if you choose the ISU commnader. There are several other commanders that gives you direct strikes. I think the balance team made it very clear the reason for that change You can't have a perfect commander that deals with everything. And Remember the commanders that LeFH(ost) belongs too aren't as powerful as the ones that ML-20(though that's no reason for ML20 to be shit though) belongs. GRCA is a very strong commander that everyone has access.

Storm is still pretty good at everything. It's awfully muni-dependent but still really good.

The slightly lower accuracy on the ML-20 means it loses most of the time to the LEFH. It is almost never worth building and generally a poor choice compared to getting another Katy. The LEFH is much more viable.

The ML20 used to be good when it had a huge AOE and much fewer shells. Relic greatly increased the number of shells in one patch, then quickly nerfed the AOE, making it much more RNG dependent than it used to be.

I'm not sure how much I would want the ML-20 buffed. I stopped playing 4v4 randoms as allied about a week ago after a streak of around a dozen games when my teammates built 6-7 arty pieces. I'd sometimes see people build 3 priests or Sextons, then wonder why they get crushed at about 45 minutes.

It's only a problem if you choose the ISU commnader. There are several other commanders that gives you direct strikes. I think the balance team made it very clear the reason for that change You can't have a perfect commander that deals with everything. And Remember the commanders that LeFH(ost) belongs too aren't as powerful as the ones that ML-20(though that's no reason for ML20 to be shit though) belongs. GRCA is a very strong commander that everyone has access.

There are not several commanders with direct strike anymore, only 2 are left. Soviet direct strike ability was cut in half with with recent update. I would suggest to bring IL2 bombing back at commanders that could need a buff by replacing a meme ability with it.

people keep suggesting JUST USE KATY LMAOOOOOOOOOO

dude OSTHEER HAVE RAKEN TOO, AND THAT SHIT KEEP GETTING BUFFED WHILE THEY STILL HAVING super strong LeFH

It's only a problem if you choose the ISU commnader. There are several other commanders that gives you direct strikes. I think the balance team made it very clear the reason for that change You can't have a perfect commander that deals with everything. And Remember the commanders that LeFH(ost) belongs too aren't as powerful as the ones that ML-20(though that's no reason for ML20 to be shit though) belongs. GRCA is a very strong commander that everyone has access.

elefant commander AT strafe CAN STILL DEAL WITH ARTY AND DESTROY THEM

elefant commander AT strafe CAN STILL DEAL WITH ARTY AND DESTROY THEM

wut ? it's an at strafe how does it deal with arty ?

wut ? it's an at strafe how does it deal with arty ?

Presumably they mean mobile arty like katy. In which case it’s a recon + AT autocannon strafing run vs asleep-at-the-wheel opponents

I'd like to see ML-20 given a very slight buff and counter barrage removed from LeFH.

Maybe increase their pop back to 15 now that they can't be dealt with as easily with omega-commanders anymore.

yea a buff might be nice for ML-20

Presumably they mean mobile arty like katy. In which case it’s a recon + AT autocannon strafing run vs asleep-at-the-wheel opponents

considering the context seems not

I'd like to see ML-20 given a very slight buff and counter barrage removed from LeFH.

That by itself might honestly be enough of a buff to the ml20. I think the ml20 does it's job well enough, unless it's going up against a leFH, and then it gets wrecked

Like if you added the removal of counter barrage to the stuka bomb/il2 changes, suddenly the ml20 is WAY more attractive

elefant commander AT strafe CAN STILL DEAL WITH ARTY AND DESTROY THEM

could sure.

considering the context seems not

Yeah I was wrong. Oh well. The idea of AT strafe destroying ML-20 was errr....interesting. ML-20 is an okayish arty piece imho but OTOH it does struggle hugely vs LEFH but no one wants to go back to the days of constantly raining arty shells either.

In any case, CB should not be removed from LEFH without factoring in the SPG situation which ignores or even counters LEFHs.

Artillery pieces in general are rather badly handled in CoH2. They're either incredibly difficult to deal with (If you have no offmap capable of killing them) due to them being VERY far behind the lines, or laughably easy to delete if you have something like a Stuka Dive Bomb, ToT, or some other relatively "precise" artillery callin.

They're also very beholden to luck, with a barrage inconsistently causing either very little, or far too much damage dependent on how well scatter rolls. This isnt even going into Counter Barrage and how that is really unpleasant to play against.

The Brit base howitzers are honestly a better implementation of "Artillery" than any of the others, in my opinion. Not acting on their own, but instead providing infantry (Or vehicles, or whatever) with the ability to call in their own, smaller artillery strikes with the same warning as a regular offmap.

I kind of wish all of the artillery pieces acted in a similar fashion to Brit Base Howitzers, not costing population, but instead firing at targets designated by other units for a munitions cost. You could even allow them to be placed in the Base Sector at that stage, so they wouldn't be vulnerable to being memed by a Stuka.


This isnt ever going to happen though, I know. Idle thoughts, really.

I'd like to see ML-20 given a very slight buff and counter barrage removed from LeFH.

Maybe increase their pop back to 15 now that they can't be dealt with as easily with omega-commanders anymore.

I'd like to see counter barrage replaced with smoke.