Since the nerf (a year or so ago) Ostheer LefH and the Russian ML-20 are hardly ever seen.
The times I have used them, I regretted my decision since they don't really perform.
They fire too slowly to have a good effect. Sure you can use them to lock down a corridor but that is hardly worth sacrificing a doctrinal slot that could have been a heavy tank.
Since these guns are in a lot of doctrines I think they need to be viable again.
If they turn out too good in team games they could be limited to one.
Buff Ost and Sov artillery guns (LefH 105mm and ML-20 152mm)
6 Mar 2021, 16:45 PM
#1
Posts: 1217
6 Mar 2021, 16:53 PM
#2
Posts: 1594
Since the nerf (a year or so ago) Ostheer LefH and the Russian ML-20 are hardly ever seen.
The times I have used them, I regretted my decision since they don't really perform.
They fire too slowly to have a good effect. Sure you can use them to lock down a corridor but that is hardly worth sacrificing a doctrinal slot that could have been a heavy tank.
Since these guns are in a lot of doctrines I think they need to be viable again.
If they turn out too good in team games they could be limited to one.
The LEFH in particular is still quite good (Primarily because of Counter-barrage. I sometimes build one in 2v2s to deal with heavy investment into indirects) and is often seen in team modes already.
Howitzers are already pretty AIDS, making them more prevalent wouldn't really be very fun.
6 Mar 2021, 17:14 PM
#3
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
ML20 is pretty bad.
Lefh is decent because of counter-barrage.
Both are usually a bad investment because of how easily they can be countered.
I'd suggest reducing their pop-cap by 2.
Lefh is decent because of counter-barrage.
Both are usually a bad investment because of how easily they can be countered.
I'd suggest reducing their pop-cap by 2.
6 Mar 2021, 17:31 PM
#4
Posts: 213
ML20 is pretty bad.
Lefh is decent because of counter-barrage.
Both are usually a bad investment because of how easily they can be countered.
I'd suggest reducing their pop-cap by 2.
Im not a fan of popcap reduction.
Lefh, Ml-20, Priest and Sexton are all inferior to rocket arty like Stuka, Werfer and Katy. And thats not cause they occupy more popcap. Their performance (apart from shooting into base sectors) is just too bad. Maybe remove the barrage cooldown and increase the time between shells. So you can adjust to the opponent. Coh2 is a more about fast movements and flexibility than immobile defense lines. A unit with slow fire and long cooldown has not much value there. And maybe we could remove the ability to target base sectors
.About counter barrage: Just remove it. It has almost no value for any good player with decent micro, while giving bad players decent value without any player input. Similar to autofire of units like pak howie or scotts. It got removed from Werfer and i dont see a reason to not remove it from Lefh.
6 Mar 2021, 17:58 PM
#5
Posts: 356
All indirect fire damage should be rebalanced to a wider area of effect with slightly less damage at the center imo.
I mostly think this so that mortars can become a blob punish, but the larger pieces would benefit from this also as they'd be more predictable in their damage i.e. less instawipes, but also less RNG miss.
I mostly think this so that mortars can become a blob punish, but the larger pieces would benefit from this also as they'd be more predictable in their damage i.e. less instawipes, but also less RNG miss.
6 Mar 2021, 19:16 PM
#6
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
ML20 is pretty bad.
Lefh is decent because of counter-barrage.
Both are usually a bad investment because of how easily they can be countered.
I'd suggest reducing their pop-cap by 2.
I can see reducing their popcap, but not much more than that. The howies are really useful in team games and ISU/Ele cmdrs losing their bombs was significant to help them out
6 Mar 2021, 19:20 PM
#7
Posts: 1594
I can see reducing their popcap, but not much more than that. The howies are really useful in team games and ISU/Ele cmdrs losing their bombs was significant to help them out
Reducing their pop-cap would make them a LOT more usable in smaller modes... though I think it's worth considering hard-caps on the units in team modes.
6 Mar 2021, 20:25 PM
#8
Posts: 978
Lol they nerfed the lefh so hard that it can't even kill emplacements. The rate of fire and reload is utter garbage now. Shame since that makes a third of the Ost doctrines unattractive.
6 Mar 2021, 20:59 PM
#9
Posts: 177
Contrary to my normal opinion on stationary artillery I feel that after the removal of stuka and il bombing runs the static artillery has made a significant comeback in teamgames due to opponent now having to actually pick a commander with anti-arty capability if he wants to deal with them.
I would say that it is way too soon after the patch and commander change to draw any conclusions about the current state of artillery in teamgames.
I would say that it is way too soon after the patch and commander change to draw any conclusions about the current state of artillery in teamgames.
6 Mar 2021, 21:51 PM
#10
Posts: 5279
Reducing their pop-cap would make them a LOT more usable in smaller modes... though I think it's worth considering hard-caps on the units in team modes.
what i would like, is a pop reduction but add a muni income reduction (sort of like how pop cap reduces MP income, but with muni)
then you can build as many as your pop cap allows, but good luck mining to defend it, or having a snare ready for a dive.
then its not a hard cap, nor does it cripple your arm composition but it does impact your economy, especially if you build a bunch (like in team games)
#stalinwept
16 Mar 2021, 04:37 AM
#11
Posts: 378
what i would like, is a pop reduction but add a muni income reduction (sort of like how pop cap reduces MP income, but with muni)
then you can build as many as your pop cap allows, but good luck mining to defend it, or having a snare ready for a dive.
then its not a hard cap, nor does it cripple your arm composition but it does impact your economy, especially if you build a bunch (like in team games)
Thats a really interesting idea, I would like to see how that worked in game
16 Mar 2021, 05:40 AM
#12
Posts: 195
It got removed from Werfer and i dont see a reason to not remove it from Lefh.
The Panzerwerfer's Counter Barrage was useless because of the way the unit worked. The LeFH Counter Barrage is completely different and it can't be compared to it.
20 Mar 2021, 20:18 PM
#13
Posts: 40
Good riddance its boring.
20 Mar 2021, 21:50 PM
#14
Posts: 57
I think the best buff for these howitzers is to adjust some commanders. NO commander should have a howitzer and a one-shot howizer destroyer ability. This essentially makes usf and ukf artillery doctorines uncounterable with indirect fire. Same should be applied to ost and sov howitzer doctorines too. And, okw currently lacks such a doctorine and is highly vulnurable to howitzer play. This post considers mainly 2v2 games.
21 Mar 2021, 00:53 AM
#15
Posts: 449
what i would like, is a pop reduction but add a muni income reduction (sort of like how pop cap reduces MP income, but with muni)
then you can build as many as your pop cap allows, but good luck mining to defend it, or having a snare ready for a dive.
then its not a hard cap, nor does it cripple your arm composition but it does impact your economy, especially if you build a bunch (like in team games)
Good idea, but is this possible?
21 Mar 2021, 01:07 AM
#16
Posts: 5279
Good idea, but is this possible?
I don't see why not. Old soviet self repair used to out a drain on munitions so the capacity is there for that at least
#stalinwept
21 Mar 2021, 01:59 AM
#17
Posts: 810
Howitzers have no problem
I just dont use them much because they are easily destroyed
And it's natural that long-range strike weapons break easily
I just dont use them much because they are easily destroyed
And it's natural that long-range strike weapons break easily
21 Mar 2021, 02:28 AM
#18
Posts: 379 | Subs: 1
Absolutely do not buff those.
21 Mar 2021, 08:24 AM
#19
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
If artillery fired fewer shells in a barrage, but had a proportionally smaller cooldown, they might be more useful in 1v1 and less annoying in larger teamgames.
With a more responsive barrage you could harrass team weapons more often (like a mortar) instead of wasting 1min+ hitting dirt when the enemy packs up after the first shot. It would also differentiate it from the long cooldown / high wipe potential of rocket arty.
With a more responsive barrage you could harrass team weapons more often (like a mortar) instead of wasting 1min+ hitting dirt when the enemy packs up after the first shot. It would also differentiate it from the long cooldown / high wipe potential of rocket arty.
21 Mar 2021, 08:33 AM
#20
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If artillery fired fewer shells in a barrage, but had a proportionally smaller cooldown, they might be more useful in 1v1 and less annoying in larger teamgames.
With a more responsive barrage you could harrass team weapons more often (like a mortar) instead of wasting 1min+ hitting dirt when the enemy packs up after the first shot. It would also differentiate it from the long cooldown / high wipe potential of rocket arty.
In a way there are. Stopping a barrage make the gun cooldown faster than letting finish the barrage.
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