In this patch for very logical reasons the Stuka dive bomb ability was removed form Jager Armor Doctrine.
However, This is an important ability to destroy emplacements/fortified positions.
In the 7 commander the Ostheer is given from the start:
Blitzkreig
Festung Armor
German Mechanized
Festung Support
Mobile Defense
Jaeger Armor
Stratigic Reserves
An ability to take out(outright destroy) emplacements does not exist.
This ability to my knowledge now resides in 3 commanders CAS, Storm, Lufthwaffe Ground support. Commanders which needs to be purchased/acquired through grinding and an important ability like so might no be available to everyone.
So I bring this case for this ability to given to one of the 4 commanders below:
Festung Armor
Festung Support
German Mechanized
Mobile Defense(i'm iffy on this one)
For obvious reasons the other commanders can not have this ability.
So I hope the Balance team will at least think about putting this ability in one of the 4(3 most likely) commander in the upcoming Commander patch.
Stuka dive bomb to be added in another commander
1 Mar 2021, 14:23 PM
#1
Posts: 1563
1 Mar 2021, 15:41 PM
#2
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
In general I think the idea is good.
But doesn't the Railway Arty of Festung armor destroy or at least take most of the HP of any emplacement?
In general I am not a huge friend of off maps instantly destroying emplacements, but I think at the current stage of the game this ship has sailed...
But doesn't the Railway Arty of Festung armor destroy or at least take most of the HP of any emplacement?
In general I am not a huge friend of off maps instantly destroying emplacements, but I think at the current stage of the game this ship has sailed...
1 Mar 2021, 15:45 PM
#3
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
In general I think the idea is good.
But doesn't the Railway Arty of Festung armor destroy or at least take most of the HP of any emplacement?
In general I am not a huge friend of off maps instantly destroying emplacements, but I think at the current stage of the game this ship has sailed...
Yes Railway arty is better vs structures than stuka.
Stuka actually has one of the lowest damage just enough to kill a howizter.
1 Mar 2021, 15:57 PM
#4
Posts: 1954
In general I think the idea is good.
But doesn't the Railway Arty of Festung armor destroy or at least take most of the HP of any emplacement?
In general I am not a huge friend of off maps instantly destroying emplacements, but I think at the current stage of the game this ship has sailed...
I think Railway destroys emplacements if not braced. Ost really isn't hurting for ways to destroy emplacements so I don't think more dive bombs are needed. OKW struggles a bit more as the only good way is to go Feuerstorm. Walking stukas will eventually get it, but getting one means your first tank is slowed by at least 3 minutes.
USF and UKF have a similar ability (something that would destroy an emplacement like a howitzer) in just one commander each, and soviets have no commanders with a 200 muni ability that will destroy arty.
1 Mar 2021, 16:22 PM
#5
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
An ability to take out(outright destroy) emplacements does not exist.
Outright destroy? The Stuka dive bomb deals 400 damage. The Mortar Pit, Bofors and 17 Pounder have 700/1050, 1000/1500 and 900 health respectively. And that's without the 1.2 health increase from Improved Fortifications.
Sure it will help, but the Stuka dive bomb is by no means a counter to emplacements.
1 Mar 2021, 16:35 PM
#6
Posts: 1563
Outright destroy? The Stuka dive bomb deals 400 damage. The Mortar Pit, Bofors and 17 Pounder have 700/1050, 1000/1500 and 900 health respectively. And that's without the 1.2 health increase from Improved Fortifications.
Sure it will help, but the Stuka dive bomb is by no means a counter to emplacements.
But it is the most efficinet means though. But thats not the point. All other faction have a heavy off map in the commander they are given.
Sovs have it in combined arms army, USF has time on target, UKF pretty much always has that and OKW has panzer commander upgrade.
1 Mar 2021, 16:37 PM
#7
Posts: 1563
In general I think the idea is good.I guess railway does that.
But doesn't the Railway Arty of Festung armor destroy or at least take most of the HP of any emplacement?
In general I am not a huge friend of off maps instantly destroying emplacements, but I think at the current stage of the game this ship has sailed...
1 Mar 2021, 16:46 PM
#8
Posts: 1594
But it is the most efficinet means though. But thats not the point. All other faction have a heavy off map in the commander they are given.
Sovs have it in combined arms army, USF has time on target, UKF pretty much always has that and OKW has panzer commander upgrade.
It's absolutely not efficient at all in "Taking out" an emplacement. You're better off just using a mortar or a PAK than you are using a Stuka Dive Bomb versus an emplacement. The Stuka is a complete waste of munitions in that scenario.
1 Mar 2021, 18:51 PM
#9
Posts: 1954
Outright destroy? The Stuka dive bomb deals 400 damage. The Mortar Pit, Bofors and 17 Pounder have 700/1050, 1000/1500 and 900 health respectively. And that's without the 1.2 health increase from Improved Fortifications.
Sure it will help, but the Stuka dive bomb is by no means a counter to emplacements.
What do you mean by 700/1050? Is that vet0 versus vet3 or something else?
It's rare that I see anyone dive bomb an emplacement. The long warning on the dive bomb makes it easy to counter with brace. I only see people use it if they went Jaeger (before this patch) and the emplacement is damaged and coming off brace, but that is a lot for most people to track. Normally people use flames and try to kill the engineers also, so that they're inflicting bleed. I mostly think of dive bombs as a way to get rid of B4's before RNG decides to hate me.
1 Mar 2021, 18:53 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I think there's dissonance between "i want Stuka dive bomb been part of the vanilla roster of commanders" and the reason as to why you want it.
As other mentioned it before Railway artillery is better against emplacements and Stuka dive bomb is only effective against Howitzers.
IIRC ISU is not part of the vanilla roster of commanders but that's not reason enough to put it up in more commanders.
As other mentioned it before Railway artillery is better against emplacements and Stuka dive bomb is only effective against Howitzers.
IIRC ISU is not part of the vanilla roster of commanders but that's not reason enough to put it up in more commanders.
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1 Mar 2021, 18:59 PM
#11
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
One could actually design the Stuka as emplacement counter but I am not sure if people would like such a change.
1 Mar 2021, 19:43 PM
#12
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
What do you mean by 700/1050? Is that vet0 versus vet3 or something else?
Yes, both the Mortar Pit and the Bofors get +50% hp at vet 3.
1 Mar 2021, 20:32 PM
#13
Posts: 919
First about howitzers:
- Ost has 2 (Edit: sorry there are 3) out of 22 commanders with 100% destruction plus 1 with a decent chance
- OKW has 4 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction
- Soviet has 2 out of 22 commanders with 100% destruction
- UKF has 1 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction
- USF has 1 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction plus 1 with a decent chance
So Ost is just about average here, only faction which stands out is OKW. So there is no reason for me to rework only Ostheer at this point.
Regarding Emplacements:
As long as Brace is available, no offmap is suited for destroying emplacements. So screw them all here. I do thing this isn't necessary at all. Emplacements are much closer to the front in comparison to howitzers. Kill them with ISG, mortar halftrack, AT-Guns, AT-Infantry, tanks and of course best one in later game stages: leFH 18. There are multiple counters to emplacements, this is totally different to howitzers where you would use that stuka dive without hesitating.
- Ost has 2 (Edit: sorry there are 3) out of 22 commanders with 100% destruction plus 1 with a decent chance
- OKW has 4 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction
- Soviet has 2 out of 22 commanders with 100% destruction
- UKF has 1 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction
- USF has 1 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction plus 1 with a decent chance
So Ost is just about average here, only faction which stands out is OKW. So there is no reason for me to rework only Ostheer at this point.
Regarding Emplacements:
As long as Brace is available, no offmap is suited for destroying emplacements. So screw them all here. I do thing this isn't necessary at all. Emplacements are much closer to the front in comparison to howitzers. Kill them with ISG, mortar halftrack, AT-Guns, AT-Infantry, tanks and of course best one in later game stages: leFH 18. There are multiple counters to emplacements, this is totally different to howitzers where you would use that stuka dive without hesitating.
1 Mar 2021, 20:41 PM
#14
Posts: 1594
First about howitzers:
- Ost has 2 out of 22 commanders with 100% destruction plus 1 with a decent chance
- OKW has 4 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction
- Soviet has 2 out of 22 commanders with 100% destruction
- UKF has 1 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction
- USF has 1 out of 9 commanders with 100% destruction plus 1 with a decent chance
So Ost is just about average here, only faction which stands out is OKW. So there is no reason for me to rework only Ostheer at this point.
Regarding Emplacements:
As long as Brace is available, no offmap is suited for destroying emplacements. So screw them all here. I do thing this isn't necessaey at all. Emplacements are much closer to the front in comparison to howitzers. Kill them with ISG, mortar halftrack, AT-Guns, AT-Infantry, tanks and of course best one in later game stages: leFH 18. There are multiple counters to emplacements, this is totally different to howitzers where you would use that stuka dive without hesitating.
I think Zeroing Arty still obliterates any emplacement, even if they're braced.
1 Mar 2021, 20:42 PM
#15
Posts: 919
I think Zeroing Arty still obliterates any emplacement, even if they're braced.
Never tried that but you may be right, there is really a lot of damage coming down there.
1 Mar 2021, 20:43 PM
#16
Posts: 306
Never tried that but you can be right, there is really a lot of damage coming down there.
what about stuka at strafe? isnt that enough to kill a howitzer?
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1 Mar 2021, 20:52 PM
#17
Posts: 919
what about stuka at strafe? isnt that enough to kill a howitzer?
Neither the Stuka AT strafe nor the IL-2 rocket AT strafe will kill a howitzer.
1 Mar 2021, 21:10 PM
#18
Posts: 919
Edited my post about 100% destruction of howitzers.
Ost has actually 3 commanders with 100% destruction and one with a decent chance. Sorry, my fault. Soviet is now last one in that compartiment because IL-2 Bomb was removed at 2 commanders for logical reasons.
Since this will promote artillery war in 3v3 and 4vs4 even more I would strongly suggest to give Stuka dive bomb to one more Ost commander and IL-2 Bomb to two more Soviet commanders. In addition it shouldn't hurt to give UKF and USF a second commander with a 100% howitzer kill.
Maybe this could be adressed at upcoming commander patch. I think it would help to tone down the upcoming artillery slug fest.
Ost has actually 3 commanders with 100% destruction and one with a decent chance. Sorry, my fault. Soviet is now last one in that compartiment because IL-2 Bomb was removed at 2 commanders for logical reasons.
Since this will promote artillery war in 3v3 and 4vs4 even more I would strongly suggest to give Stuka dive bomb to one more Ost commander and IL-2 Bomb to two more Soviet commanders. In addition it shouldn't hurt to give UKF and USF a second commander with a 100% howitzer kill.
Maybe this could be adressed at upcoming commander patch. I think it would help to tone down the upcoming artillery slug fest.
1 Mar 2021, 21:21 PM
#19
Posts: 1563
It's not that i was the stuka dive bomb to be in 1 more commander. I want it to in one of the 3 /4 vanilla ones as it is unique that it can do a lot of damage to howis and neutralize points. A mechanic that really shouldn't only be locked because of a pay or grind wall.
1 Mar 2021, 22:10 PM
#20
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
It's not that i was the stuka dive bomb to be in 1 more commander. I want it to in one of the 3 /4 vanilla ones as it is unique that it can do a lot of damage to howis and neutralize points. A mechanic that really shouldn't only be locked because of a pay or grind wall.
OH Vanilla doesn't have access to a Tiger commander.
SU doesn't have access to a ISU
Those are far more unique than an offmap which 99% of the time is used to nuke a single thing.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
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