Abandon

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 23:42 PMKatitof

Oh believe me, I have lost and won games by abandon myself. 4 total maybe?
But vast majority of them were pre abandon "nerf", as of now, unless you dived a single suicidal vehicle and basically given it to enemy/he gave it to you, its not even possible to recover it against equally skilled opponent who wasn't completely forced off the field.

The mechanic basically decides the games in so tiny, minor, insufficient % of games that I see this whole thread as little more then another "I lost one game, I think I lost it because X, therefore I will rant about X to have it removed" kind of thread.

Take literally any tournament we've had recently and count how many games were won or lost because of it.
You'll find out that this is not an actual issue, but a result of people running out of things to bitch about.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 23:44 PMSander93

Well... none... because they've been using tourney mod for about a year now that removes it. Because naturally all the high tier competitive players voted to get rid of it.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 23:44 PMSander93

Well... none... because they've been using tourney mod for about a year now that removes it. Because naturally all the high tier competitive players voted to get rid of it.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 15:23 PMPip

Some people prefer their success and failure to be entirely tied to dicerolls than to actual effort, apparently.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 23:44 PMSander93

Well... none... because they've been using tourney mod for about a year now that removes it. Because naturally all the high tier competitive players voted to get rid of it.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 23:33 PMJPA32

The main disconnect I see with defenders of current abandon is the lack of understanding in how impactful an abandoned vehicle actually is to a game and just how easy it is to recover when it happens. It's rare, but it absolutely removes any notion of skillful play once it does happen and flips the table sideways in a way that isn't fun for anyone looking for a good game.

[...]

The mechanic has no proper counter-play at the moment because often times playing around the chance of abandon is counter-productive to winning the game and when it does happen in a way you can't control it will always decide the game in the favor of the player who acquires the vehicle. It can be improved to be less game deciding with proper timing penalties and resource costs which for some inexplicable reason the "fun" crowd seems to be against despite the fact that it's a rare plague upon the game when it happens currently.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 02:40 AMmrgame2

hopefully we see more audience and general players influence the flow and choices too.

abandon makes for better view ship imo. more viewers more sponsors and rewards

i skimped through the last few tourney, same ish meta, same ish build order to exploit the same few maps and we got a familiar flow

tightrope 2v2 >>>>> elite tourneys these days imo

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 23:42 PMKatitof

The mechanic basically decides the games in so tiny, minor, insufficient % of games that I see this whole thread as little more then another "I lost one game, I think I lost it because X, therefore I will rant about X to have it removed" kind of thread.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 23:42 PMKatitof

The mechanic basically decides the games in so tiny, minor, insufficient % of games that I see this whole thread as little more then another "I lost one game, I think I lost it because X, therefore I will rant about X to have it removed" kind of thread.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2021, 23:50 PMKatitof

I might have forgotten about it.
Still, I don't remember it being any frequent occurrence years prior.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 15:01 PMKieselberg

This exactly. IN the grand scheme of thing abandon means nothing. It only matters in money games

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 15:06 PMSkysTheLimit

So abandon only matters if you actually care about winning? Well then it's definitely an issue that needs to be addressed...

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 14:46 PMHannibal

Well, so tiny that all pro players unanimously agreed that it needs to be removed in tournaments.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 15:06 PMSkysTheLimit

Well the pros who actually play in the tourneys voted it out. That's a lot more relevant tbh

It's very clearly more than a "I just lost one game" rant. There's lots of support for removing it, and the highest level players have already done so for themselves in actual competitions. Kinda says it all

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 16:38 PMmrgame2

pro players are tiny by the numbers though.

thats too bad. eek sports homogeneity is killing creativity. very narrow definition of balance.

we need more vonivans playing and less hulks crying about coh mechanics.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 13:14 PMHannibal

Abandon would not have changed anything of that, because it is so rare that people would not alter their play style and grand strategy for the possibility of it to happen. Yet, it is often enough that maybe a couple of games would have (unfairly) worked out differently.

It's at an very odd place. Too frequent to just ignore it and treat it as a "glitch"-like occurance that you have to live with from time to time, but too rare to incorporate it into the strategy by any means.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 16:44 PMJPA32

While I agree Abandon should be changed, Automatch and Tournaments are two very different situations that require different solutions since the former is more of an "oh well that sucks, next game" situation, while a tournament abandon can result in you being defeated and out of the tournament entirely.

Quite frankly in automatch I get annoyed at abandon when it happens (hence why I want it changed), in a tournament I would probably never play the game again if it went against me because that's some bullshit of the highest magnitude and I wouldn't trust in the sanctity of the game anymore.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 16:44 PMPip

Pro players are also the ones who might actually know how to improve a game, whereas rank 5000 4v4 players do not.

Removing or reworking bad mechanics isnt "killing creativity" or making the game "homogenous" no matter how many times you say it, nor is "Eek-sports" a real term despite you constantly forcing it.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 16:45 PMmrgame2

every bits count. removing more possibilites and desire for controllable outcomes is bad outlook for coh3.

im sure if sega offered $1m prize money, and the top 20 players decide not to play because of abandon mgc rng, the next ladder down will still provide the same entertainment and viewership satisfaction.

it is just too narrow definition. too elitist to think randomness is poor quality, poor effort, aggression should always be 1 dimensional rewards, no risks.

i can throw back that football is the biggest sports in the world, messi 3 years salary crushes all pro-chess players in world. messi has spatial and physical intelligence and still trains as hard in his 30s like his 20s. hulk can continue sulking at coh mechanics /shrug.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 16:46 PMPip

Honestly Tournament and Automatch should be using the same balance patches, which should be the one tailored for "Tournament mode". It doesn't make sense for the game to change between the two "modes", and it makes things even less consistent.

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 16:49 PMPip

You know that Football and Chess aren't comparable games in the slightest, right? Why do you keep trying to make some comparison between a physical team-based sport and a strategy 1v1 game like Chess?